response 50 of 91:

Oct 7 03:15 UTC 1999

Eep. Prague wasn't that way. Most places had vegetarian options, just 
not too many of them. Ireland, however... had I been a vegetarian, I'd 
have starved to death. 

response 52 of 91:

Oct 9 18:32 UTC 1999

ref #23: OK, I should have said, "as long as your dairy is kosher". And I
didn't mention the utensils because that's implied by the term. Sheesh.

response 54 of 91:

Oct 11 05:27 UTC 1999

Proteins needs can vary quite a bit.  Heavy exercise can increase one's
protein needs (both to repair damage caused by the exercise, and to
increase muscle bulk.) Getting part of one's daily calorie requirements
from protein can also be a good thing, because protein takes the longest
to digest and therefore staves off hunger the longest.

Some vegetable sources are more complete protein sources than others.
Corn, for instance, is particularly non-complete (but can be improved by
reacting it with alkali, if done carefully).  Getting complete amino
acids, though, is not usually a big problem.

What's actually harder is getting all the necessary vitamins.  Corn,
rice, etc., are not particularly good sources of most vitamins.  A and C
aren't too hard to get, as most fresh vegtables are good sources of one
or the other of these.  A is fat soluable and the body is pretty good at
recycling it, so it's not critical to have it at every meal.  A raw
carrot, now and then, is a perfectly adequate way to get sufficient A.
C is water soluable, and the body will flush excess C away rather than
storing it.  So it's more important to get C on a regular basis.  Citrus
fruit, onions and green peppers are all decent sources of C.  One of the
*best* sources of C and A turns out to be raw violet leaves.  These are
actually far more concentrated than orange juice, so a little goes a
long way.  I find in practice that the hardest vitamins to get are some
of the B vitamins, and I solve this by having brewer's yeast.  A
tablespoon or so of this in water is a reasonable beverage.  One of the
odd things is that it tastes *much* better if I'm running a bit low on B
vitamins.

response 56 of 91:

Oct 11 16:02 UTC 1999

Meat does not contain any vitamin C that I know of.
Alkali-treated corn has more niacin.  I did not know that it affected amino
acid content, but perhaps it converts one acid to another.
Good sources of C:  papaya, broccoli, brussels sprouts, peppers, strawberries,
cabbage, mustard greens, turnip greens.  Number 29 is raw oysters, one cup
of which provides less than one cup of broccoli.  (The oysters must have
feasted on vegetables recently).  Beef liver has a small amount, chicken none.
The best sources of niacin, a B vitamin:
mushrooms, wheat bran, brewer's yeast, tuna, chicken, liver, salmon,
asparagus, oysters, bok choy, shripmp, romaine lettuce, peanuts, peaches,
peppers, cauliflower.

Thiamin (ranked by amount per calorie):  yeast, romanie, ham, wheat germ,
mushroom,s bacon, asparagus, sunflower seeds, green peas, pork, alfalfa seeds,
lettuce, mustard greens, tomato, squash, bean sprouts, broccoli.
Ranked by total amount:  pork chop or ham, 3 oz, equals 1/4 cup sunflower seeds
or 2 cups green peas or black beans.
Daily thiamin requiremement is 1.0-1.5 mg (higher value is for teenage males).
One tsp brewer's yeast gives 1.25 mg.  Someone averse to eating brewer's yeast
(recommended for vegans) might be advised to eat meat for the thiamin content,
but a vitamin pill would do as well, if they did not want to eat beans or
peas.  One way to get 1.0 mg is one potato, one cup squash, one cup oatmeal,
and half a slice of watermelon.  A whole slice of watermelon surprisingly hass
half your daily requirement!  No wonder Jim eats so much watermelon.  He says
he will have some right now for breakfast.  He eats not a slice but a quart
or so of watermelon.

Grains have little thiamin or niacin, which is why you are supposed to combine
them with beans, not just for the amino acid balance.  

The other B vitamins are common in vegetables:  riboflavin in dark leafy
greens (one cup beet greens has mor than a cup of milk);  b6 in cabbage family
(cabbage, bok choy, turnip and mustard greens, cauliflower, broccoli) and
peppers and awhole lot in bananas, navy beans, potatos, again watermelon, soy
beans, spinach, dried figs (with far fewer calories than in meat, another
common source of B6)  
B6 requirement  about 2.0-2.2 mg/day, or three cups of beans, or one cup plus
a potato and a slice of watermelon.  or 1.5 pounds of steak (which would
provide most of your calorie requirements at the same time)

Folacin - dark leafy vegetables, almost none in meat.  Spinach 262 mg/cup,
chicken breast 3 mg.  Americans tend to have folacin deficiency.

B12 is found in animal products but you can buy brewer's yeast with B12 added
(it is grown on a B12 containing medium) or take pills, and it is also found
in the dirt on fresh vegetables, and in tempeh grown the old-fashioned way.
(B12 is produced by bacteria).

Vitamin A is found in liver.  THe liver stores it, after it has been consumed
in the form of dark green or orange vegetables and fruits.

You would have to be eating a really unbalanced diet not to get enough
vitamins (other than B12) from non-animal sources, other than possibly niacin
and thiamin.  Thiamin can also be produced by the body from the amino acid
tryptophan.  The daily requirement (sans tryptophan) is available also in 4
oz peanuts.

Fat also digests slowly, for those who cannot be bothered to eat often.

response 58 of 91:

Oct 11 19:13 UTC 1999

I heard Sri Lankans produce their own vitamin C.  I think most mammals produce
their own, at least the carnivores do.  Eskimos eat stomach contents.
We just ordered 25 pounds of raw peanuts, bulk.  They are good in stir fries,
or toasted and mixed with raisins as a late night snack.

response 60 of 91:

Oct 11 22:13 UTC 1999

I've been reading about low-carbohydrate diets lately, and am seriously
considering changing my diet to one.  Basically, the idea is that eating too
many carbohydrates stimulates insulin production, which in turn, promotes fat
production.  This seems to fit with my experience, especially of late.  My diet
is relatively high in carbohydrates, and although I get a lot of exercise, I
seem to be getting fatter.  

There are several books out on the subject, and basically what they call for is
less carbs and more protein, along with some fat.  A diet properly balanced
helps better regulate your insulin production, and thereby how fat you are.

response 62 of 91:

Oct 12 03:28 UTC 1999

My recollection (many years old) is that liver was one of the few meat
products high in vitamin C (and many other vitamins and minerals.)
Brewer's yeast is also a common constituent of vitamin pills.

response 64 of 91:

Oct 12 09:25 UTC 1999

I have read that cats produce vitamin C in their bodies, though
I'm not sure of the mechanism.  i will try to find a cite.

response 66 of 91:

Oct 12 13:01 UTC 1999

        Well, it's water-soluble, whaddya expect?

response 68 of 91:

Oct 12 17:04 UTC 1999

Re danr's resp:60 - I've had very good success with a "moderately low"
carbohydrate diet.  Since switching to one about 18 months ago, I lost
over 25 pounds in the first 9 months -- virtually all of it fat loss --
and have been very stable in weight ever since.  Since losing the
weight, I feel better physically and emotionally than I have in years,
and seem to have no tendency to put pounds back on.  And while I was
losing weight, I didn't feel like I was starving myself.

What I've been on is the so-called "Zone" diet, which is a 40/30/30
regimen (40% of calories from carb's, 30% from protein, 30% from fat),
maintained at every meal and snack.  There's more to it than that,
though.  I recommend getting hold of Barry Sears' "Zone" books and
slogging through them -- a somewhat painful experience, but the
benefits have proved well worth it, in my case at least.

response 70 of 91:

Oct 13 01:18 UTC 1999

I don't think so.  When the fall semester started last year and
I got busy with school, my exercise activity dropped drastically
but I continued to lose weight over the next several months, at
about the same rate as during the summer when I was much more 
active.

My former diet was actually lower in protein and fat than my
current one, but much higher in carbohydrate, especially of the
starchy variety.

A point that's often overlooked about the Zone diet is that it's
a restricted-calorie diet.  Part of it involves calculating your
daily food needs based on your lean body mass and activity
level.  If you follow the recommendations, you end up consuming
a lot fewer calories than the average American gets.  Since most
Americans are overweight, it's not surprising that most people
lose weight on it, even if they're not very active.  (Although
Sindi might actually gain weight...)  

What I found to be so different about the Zone from other
weight-loss approaches I've tried is that I am able to stay on
it without feeling that I'm starving myself.  That plus my
improved sense of well-being is why I've stuck with it, I'm sure.

I've read quotes about excessive protein consumption similar to
the one Sindi gives in #69.  I'm sure that excess protein can do
all that, but I don't think the Zone diet is excessive.  It is
specifically formulated to balance the protein with enough
carbohydrate to avoid ketosis.  (In contrast to extreme high-
protein, low-carb diets like Atkins, which is designed to induce
ketosis.)

Much of what Sindi says is quite compatible with the Zone diet.
Generally, it recommends getting most of one's carbohydrate from
high-fiber foods: fresh fruits and vegetables, beans, and whole
grains, and minimizing intake of refined flour and sugar products.
Also, protein sources should be low fat (e.g. chicken, turkey,
soy), and red meat should be minimized or avoided altogether. 
Fat consumption should be mainly of the monounsaturated variety
(e.g. olive oil and various kinds of nuts), with saturated
fat being avoided.  

My take on the Zone is that it's a moderate, sensible diet that
works, not just as a temporary weight-loss strategy but as a
permanent approach to eating.

response 72 of 91:

Oct 13 07:14 UTC 1999

My recollection is that while most mammals can synthesize vitamin C, all
primates (and some other species) can't.  On the other hand, I believe
humans can synthesize vitamin E, but rodents can't.  I don't see any
obvious web pages that discuss this in general, but I did find this for
pigs:
        http://www.jefo.ca/references/ref_porcivit.html
(It's clear from the page that neonatal pigs can't synthesize C, but
adult pigs can.)

response 74 of 91:

Oct 13 17:26 UTC 1999

I accept the provided evidence that (some) mammalian cells can synthesize
VItamin C.