response 50 of 561:

Jun 21 12:13 UTC 1996

What could be done to help Arbornet get their technical staff back?

response 52 of 561:

Jun 21 15:02 UTC 1996

re 50:  Perhaps if the Last President of Arbornet had allowed the staff
to operate as staff and not be micro-managed by a wanna-be root and 
board that seems to need to make every major decision.  It was the
president's campaign platform to move the Board to the directorship
or Arbornet and let the VP in charge of M-net and the other staff
do their work.  So, perhaps less burancuracy is needed.  Perhaps
the staff didn't need 'emergencies' thrust on them by surprise
changes of hardware.  Perhaps the staff didn't need to be asked
about internet upgrade, then have it all ignored anyway.

response 54 of 561:

Jun 21 17:23 UTC 1996

From what I read on mnet, it seems like some of the patrons/former patrosn
have gotten to the point where they wont support m-net unless it splits
from arbornet.  They want a divorce and nothing less.

Many also want to restrict guest, telnet and non-member access, thinking 
why should their patron money be supporting a board that serves all these 
out-of-towners.  Some of these problems are unresolveable and so some of 
these patrons if not most will not be back I guess.

response 56 of 561:

Jun 21 20:45 UTC 1996

        It is also quite evident that the fairwitness where not polled
on proposed changes.  M-net lost at least 4 in this past weeks 
actions (leda, raven, void, ??).

response 58 of 561:

Jun 21 21:23 UTC 1996

re: #56 add jam to that list.

response 60 of 561:

Jun 22 00:55 UTC 1996

Being highly involved with the I-Net at my school, I have the following to
say:
Go to a local business or even a school, and make a deal:
They lend you space for grex ie:A cupboard
2) You allow them to use your line(pay part of the price too)!
You could even get a faster line(ie:56K)!
If you can find a business tell them: that it would be good for them because
they would get InterNet connections for their employees, and they can have
their own web server.  As for a school, A lot of schools are getting internet
connections, who would mind if a bit of the bandwidth is used up?

response 62 of 561:

Jun 22 06:04 UTC 1996

The problem with that is that Grex doesn't just use a bit of bandwidth.  If
we were given a 56K line, we would use all of it.

response 64 of 561:

Jun 22 09:21 UTC 1996

Two *big* problems with that idea:

1.) We are currently getting quotes from various ISP's. Part of our
    bargaining position is that they will be providing Internet access to
    a volunteer, non-profit, open-access BBS. If we then turn around and
    give some of that bandwidth to a potential customer of the ISP, the ISP
    will, very rightly, be very *pissed* *off* at us. Most ISP's charge
    anywhere from $250 to $350 for 64K service, and $500 to $600+ for 128K
    service. That's per *month*. We're hoping to negotiate a lower rate
    based on our status, but that won't work if we give part of that
    bandwidth away to a commercial entity.

2.) You can't trade something you don't own.

    I have heard various suggestions along the lines of "We could offer
    to help some company/location/school/library get connected to the
    Internet in exchange for a cheap location". Arbornet already tried
    that. Their plan was to help the NEW center get connected in exchange
    for, hopefully, enough goodwill that they could continue to live in
    the NEW Center. The problem with all these plans, is that they are
    being paid for with a type of currency that is not actually owned by
    the organization. That currency is called "staff time". If we had a
    *paid* staff, then we could, in good conscience, offer to trade some
    of those man-hours in exchange for a room. But with an all-volunteer
    staff, you can't do that. By offering to trade help to another
    organization, Grex would effectively be volunteering myself and other
    staff members to do work that we never volunteered to do.

response 66 of 561:

Jun 22 13:02 UTC 1996

under the arbornet plan, helping at the new center was strictly voluntary.
some staffers did, some didn't.  it all depended on what you signed up for.
given the nature of volunteerism, inconsistancy was the by-word.  people's
"real lives" seemed to get in the way :)

due to the set up of arbornet, inc. they are not able to pay staff as an
option.  their 501(c)(3) prohibits staff compensation.  mayhaps, grex can
compensate, dunno.

arbornet, inc. also put into place a plan offering "patron" accounts to
businesses.  cost was to be $300.00 per year.  i don't think they have sold
even one such account since the plan was enacted in 1994.

response 68 of 561:

Jun 22 17:02 UTC 1996

I was not aware that being tax exempt under 501(c)(3) prohibited the 
corporation from paying staff or other employees. Scott, I was not thinking
about Grex paying.

response 70 of 561:

Jun 22 17:37 UTC 1996

People are *way* more expensive than rent or hardware.  People are the biggest
investment made by any business.  It doesn't have to do with tax status.  If
Grex or another system had $60,000 to pay a staffer for a year (by the time
you figure benefits, payroll taxes, etc.) we wouldn't have to worry about
rent.

response 72 of 561:

Jun 22 18:06 UTC 1996

I assume staff can be paid, if there is money to pay the staff with.  Offering
to let somebody else pay our staff to do things for them doesn't sound like
an attractive offer, given that if any of us has time to do that sort of
consulting work we can do it without Grex getting involved.  If it's a matter
of Grex having to pay somebody, that money has to come from somewhere.

response 74 of 561:

Jun 22 21:23 UTC 1996

... on those lines, and for the same reasons as gregc, 'into the
same room (even next room over)' is a VeryBadIdea (tm) for g
Grex.  let's drop that line now.