response 51 of 90:

Jul 10 20:37 UTC 2001

I do have a problem with conditions attached after a bid has started.
That seems unfair to the bidders.

And in considering whether to accept items with strings attached, we should
consider what bad feelings will be generated about the auction when there is
a conflict between the donor and buyer.  brighn seems to have gotten some
bad vibes from this discussion, for instance, and jerryr did his best to
shovel dirt on the auction (and Grexers in general) when the donor of an
item he bought in the last auction disappeared without delivering it.
Hopefully most Grexers know better than to generalize from a couple of
examples where things didn't go smoothly, but it still makes me worry,
when these things happen, that all of the work done getting other items
bid on, sold, paid for, and delivered will be eclipsed.

response 53 of 90:

Jul 10 21:41 UTC 2001

Since my e-mail is forwarded to M-Net and I can't log into M-Net just 
now, keesan, I have been notified I won the bid on the lawnmowers, and 
will send a check to Grex as soon as I remember the bid when I'm at 
home.  (I mostly Grex from work.)  If this isn't acceptable, please let 
me know so I can quit trying to remember that I owe Grex a check.

I'm not complaining about the auctioneers, but in the item for which I 
bid, there was one other bid over a 3 week period before my winning bids 
were finally accepted and finalized.  It's probably been a week since I 
won the bid.

I wouldn't have participated in the auction if I'd realized a one week 
delay might cause a problem, because I could never be sure I wouldn't 
encounter anything that might cause such a delay.  (Including my own 
absent mindedness, as has happened this time.)

response 55 of 90:

Jul 11 14:22 UTC 2001

Who is suggesting a one week time limit for contact AND payment? 

I'm suggesting a one week time limit for contact. Last I read, Sindi was
suggesting a one MONTH time limit for payment.

I hardly think a one week time limit for somebody who logs on every day (which
is what I suggested) to e-mail Aruba and say, "Hey, dude, thanks for the
e-mail, I'll get back atcha in a few" is "too short."

response 57 of 90:

Jul 11 18:33 UTC 2001

I'd suggest we not do anything differently than we have been doing.  Each
donor includes any rules he or she would like attached to their auction
item with the opening information.  No global rules are needed. 

If you have specific expectations but don't make them known then you
have to work with the buyer.  

If this is too loose for you then maybe the auction is not the place
for you get donate to Grex.  But it seems to work real well for almost
everyone else without a lot of rules and regulations.

response 59 of 90:

Jul 11 19:37 UTC 2001

I'm with Mary.  I don't see items with explicit picup policies getting lots
more bidders, as Sindi's claim would suggest 
[ I think a complete absence of policies will discourage people from
 participating in the auction.]

Certainly, a complete absence of policies has worked for years, and hasn't
discouraged people from participating.  

Since there only seems to be one donor who is aggitated by our lack of global
policies, I suggest that auctioneers allow donors to limit who they will
accept as bidders, and not get Grex involved in global statements about
restrictions on bidders.

response 61 of 90:

Jul 11 21:55 UTC 2001

(I love the loosey-goosey bit.)

But, but, sir...  Those who want rules are free to make as many 
and their little hearts desire.  Really.  They just have to 
make it part of the bidding process.  So I can't imagine there
are a whole lot of people itching to get involved but are holding
back until more rules are in place when, in fact, they have control
over the rules for any item now.

It's easiest for those donating the item or services but even 
someone bidding on the item can make their needs known and
their bid conditional on the specifics being acceptable to the donor.

Like, I'd like to bid on that massage but defer the appointment
until September, when my girlfriend will be out of town.

See how easy that was.

response 63 of 90:

Jul 11 23:18 UTC 2001

What are you going to do if an auctioneer doesn't follow any rules that 
are implemented?  No rule has any merit if there aren't sanctions for 
not following it.

I think letting the auctioneers handle things as they see fit is an 
excellent general overall rule for the auction.

response 65 of 90:

Jul 13 02:47 UTC 2001

Re 64:  We'd noticed.  Can I just say that I find Grex and Grexers 
wildly entertaining?  (And Mary -- who's your girlfriend? ;))

Some thoughts upon a quick read:

Re 42:  "This isn't a "dumping ground for unwanted goods" was my phrase, 
I think.  The key there is "dumping ground", not "unwanted goods."

Re 51: I concur completely on the no-retroactive-conditions idea.  I 
have mixed feelings about accepting items "with strings attached" -- 
I'm not wild about it, but also think that saying, "no, we're going to 
do it *our* way" could alienate people too.  I guess it depends on what 
the strings are.  Mary and Colleen seem to make some good points about 
this.

Re 58: A lack of *rules* isn't a time-waster.  A lack of *courtesy* is a 
time-waster. (Among, it should be noted, a very small number of 
individuals.  I can't speak for Mark, but I'm not utterly resenting the 
auction or anything.)

Re 63: This is a good point; while Grex is a democracy and we genuinely 
want to get people's opinions and ideas, there is an extent to which 
Mark and I have to use our judgment and keep things in order.  You will 
note that -- while we send an initial e-mail when someone wins a bid -- 
neither of us has a history of consistently keeping pressure on them 
within a week, or even two weeks, after that. And lately I've neglected 
closing bids on some items as quickly as I'm supposed to, because *I* 
haven't logged into Grex as often.  I occasionally get caught up in 
other things, and I suspect that Mark, too, is occasionally not online. 
 ;)  This would make me feel ever-so-slightly hypocritical about 
enforcing swift time limits.

There *are* rules, of a fashion, in item 1 of this conference.  I'll 
read them and come back with more thoughts.

response 67 of 90:

Jul 13 13:47 UTC 2001

Ways to get rid of unwanted items, most of them less trouble than donating
to the grex auction:
1.  Don't acquire it in the first place.  We keep bringing home things that
we found at the curb that only need a minor repair, fixing them, and
putting them in a grex auction (barbecue, phonograph, mowers).  Leave it at
the curb for some other lucky person to invest time in.
2.  Put it out at the curb with a 'Free, Works' sign.  In my neighborhood
things disappear within a day, usually sooner.
3.  Bring it to Kiwanis Rummage Sale (five blocks away) or if it is large call
for pickup.
4.  Donate records and books and CDs to the public library book sale, about
a 30 minute walk.  
5.  Don't let friends give you things that they think you can find a home for,
such as microwave ovens that only need one button replaced, or fans with a
blown fuse that need cleaning.  Make it their problem.  
6.  Put an ad in the Freebies and make money from it.  That way you get buyers
who both pay and take it away immediately.  Don't wait more than half an hour
for no-shows, call the next person back.  

Of course none of these methods are quite suitable for home-made things like
envelopes, sausages, apple pies, breakfast in bed, ragtime concerts, and other
such 'unwanted things' that need to be 'dumped'.  In fact I have not noticed
any donations of anything worthless in the auction.  Donors, unlike most of
the people listing in eBay, appear to be genuinely interested in contributing
something 'wanted' (by other grexers) and thereby benefiting both the buyers
and grex finances.  There are much easier ways to get rid of things.

I agree that courtesy is what makes the grex auction work.  Perhaps this
discussion will at least stimulate people to act faster on their purchases,
even if it does not lead to default rules to deal with the very small minority
of bidders that is not courteous.

response 69 of 90:

Jul 13 20:55 UTC 2001

Let us not forget the homemade items that are donated to grex... like jewelry,
food items and crafts... these are not unwanted...

response 71 of 90:

Jul 13 23:40 UTC 2001

Makes them a lot easier to store.  Perhaps I should take orders for push
mowers and deliver them only after I find one at the curb (and Jim adjusts
and sharpens it).  

response 73 of 90:

Jul 15 13:03 UTC 2001

In the last three days we just acquired one more each:  push mower, broken
fan (probably needs a thermal cutout fuse) and broken microwave oven (needs
a 20A fuse).  We are not doing a terribly good job of reducing possessions.
The mower needing adjusting (it no longer cut).  We also acquired three tall
stools and probably a few other things.  If anybody is looking for something
specific and does not live in town, let us know and we will probably run
across it.  Oh, I acquired a fruit dryer about an hour after deciding that
our apricot crop this year was too big to eat it all (at the curb).  The
excess is currently half dry.