response 51 of 105:

Feb 24 05:39 UTC 1998

Yes, I recall who it was, too. It seems to be a disease carried by
form 1023.

response 53 of 105:

Feb 24 15:51 UTC 1998

Lest anyone misunderstand me, I do *not* want Grex to become a 501(c)(3),
even if the Board has to meet in the City Hall parking lot!

response 55 of 105:

Feb 24 19:33 UTC 1998

I agree, Rane.  And one of these days we'll get it done...but as you say, 
form 1023 seems to carry a bad caseof intertia with it.  (Maybe even worse than
form 1040 -- that at least has deadlines.)

response 57 of 105:

Feb 25 02:04 UTC 1998

Possibly a bad case of M-net?

response 59 of 105:

Feb 25 18:18 UTC 1998

Doesn't m-net always send an acknowledgement to donors? If not, no
wonder there isn't much interest in donating! This should be always
be done. 

There are many charitable 501(c)3 organizations that do not service the
poor. The criterion is essentially that the organization provide a service
that government might otherwise could or has to provide for the public
good.  I have never heard of charitable organizations that are not
human-services providers being attacked "by twits". I am or have been an
officer in at least six 501(c)3 exempt charitable non-profits, none of
which served the poor or homeless etc, and in *none* of them did we ever
encounter "endless tail-chasing exercises". In fact, the only time the
status ever entered into our business, it was to our benefit (Adobe
Computers just donated a copy of Photoshop to one of them - 501(c)3 status
was required.) 

It does happen that some agencies may not look upon a non-human-services
charitable organization as deserving of certain benefits. In another of
my organizations, we were denied property tax exemption by a township
because we weren't "a church or scout camp or something like that". We
sued, and won in the Michigan tax court. 

response 61 of 105:

Feb 25 20:10 UTC 1998

i believe it is standard practice among 501(c)s org's to provide donors with
receipts bearing the tax id number of the org and the amount of the donation
which is deductible.  i have received such from every 501(c)3 to which i have
given, excepting m-net.

i may not wish to take the additional steps to deduct a small donation, but
certainly for anything over $100 it is worth my time.  i am sure others feel
similarly.

m-net got into trouble over it's 501(c)3 because of the conviction of certain
uninformed users that m-net was fraudulently accorded the status because it
was not carrying out formal programs of education and outreach in addition
to providing its basic service function.  grex users tend not to quite so
virulently pursue issues about which they are totally ignorant.

response 63 of 105:

Feb 26 08:31 UTC 1998

Well...you *always* get turned down the first time. It is to test your
mettle (or metal?). They will come back with a whole bunch of additional
questions. This is how they test if an organization is serious and committed.

Yes, the thank you letter should acknowledge the ammount of any monetary
gift. It should *not* state a value for any in-kind (property) donation.
If a monetary gift is more than $250 you must state in the acknowledgement
letter that "no goods or services were provided in exchange for this gift"
or words to that effect. 

response 65 of 105:

Feb 26 16:49 UTC 1998

Making use of a 501(c)(3) designation takes some extra effort.  Even 
having it requires some extra effort.

Arbornet has never had anyone who was willing to apply for grants, 
contact corporations, and push to make good use of it's 501(c)(3) for 
the benefit of M-Net.  Dan Napolitano (keats) applied for and got one 
$7500 grant that allowed Arbornet to take on a new project, but the 
project (the K-12 teacher network) never got the volunteer support it 
needed, and is now long since dead.

Arbornet has been mired for years because Aaron Larson (aaron) has 
pushed to get the organization to comply with the various rules for 
funding and operating a 501(c)(3) designated corporation, and there's 
little interest on anyone's part to work at following those rules.  
There are a lot of rules.  30% of funding has to come from donations 
(not purchases of service such as memberships carrying extra perks), for 
example.  Arbornet's operations are not strictly what the mission 
statement says they should be.  I could go on and on, but you can go 
back and read old policy conferences on M-Net if you want, and get a 
better picture.

Dave is expressing the doubt that the benefits are worth the numerous 
hurdles and requirements.  I agree with him in that I wouldn't want to 
see Grex go through the problems M-Net has had in recent years.  I think 
a 501(c)(3) is a great benefit to the right organization, but I'm not 
sure I think Grex is the right organization any more than M-Net was when 
it took that step.  

M-Net had some pressures at the time, with failing equipment and lack of 
funding, that Grex doesn't have.  M-Net had to do something.  Grex 
doesn't.  It's doing just fine now.

M-Net placed itself under another organization, with an existing 
(and elderly) charter and requirements.  Grex can create it's own  
new 501(c)(3) charter, which may be enough to allow it to be more 
successful.

response 67 of 105:

Feb 26 19:18 UTC 1998

Commie High closes at 9 and is booked solid.  (Did not check other schools).
 The Ann Arbor Community Center on N. Main is renovating for a few months but
does rent out rooms.  Several churches did not answer (but St. Andrews would
probably charge $25-40).  First Baptist has several rooms available on the
fourth Wed. (other days were all taken) and is open until 10:00.  They can
set up chairs and tables.  The fee depends on several factors but is probably
somewhere around $25, we would have to come in a fill out an application form.
(They also host 12-step programs and an Interfaith Council for Peace and
Justice meeting and are very centrally located.)  

response 71 of 105:

Mar 4 02:45 UTC 1998

Long ago I promised Grex a $100 donation, no strings attached aside from  
being able to deduct it off of my taxes. The offer is still open. 
Therefore, I am quite certain that it is costing Grex money not to be a 
501(C)(3), although I am saving some (less than Grex is losing though).

I am fully convinced that we qualify, and that there is no good reason 
to be a 501(C)(3).

response 73 of 105:

Mar 4 18:55 UTC 1998

Is your pledge intended to push Grex to becoming a 501(c)(3), Steve, or 
do you just strongly believe you deserve a tax break for donating to a 
non-profit?  I'm just trying to understand the motivation here.