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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 137 responses total. |
janc
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response 50 of 137:
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Nov 26 20:03 UTC 1997 |
Well, we are basically ready to switch except that we need to do a security
sweep and probably a bit more testing. There is no particular reason that
this couldn't be done before December, but there are only a few people really
qualified to do a good security sweep and it's a matter of one of those people
finding time. If we don't make it before, I guess we can wait till after.
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srw
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response 51 of 137:
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Nov 26 20:52 UTC 1997 |
I'd hate to have the new computer sit around unused for a month, once it is
ready to be used.
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dpc
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response 52 of 137:
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Nov 26 22:37 UTC 1997 |
I'd rather see the 4/670 wait until *after* the voting period. And remember
I've been one of the people jumping up and down about delays!
I (and others) have suffered through several M-Net upgrades which
turned out beneficial in the long run, but caused maddening delays/
service outages/whatnot in the meantime. We may *think* a System
change of the magnitude we contemplate will go smoothly. But I've
been down that trail of forlorn hopes too many times.
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other
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response 53 of 137:
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Nov 27 05:31 UTC 1997 |
I'm extremely confident that the changeover would be accomplished without
significant delay or outage, but I think I agree that it makes sense to hold
off on the switch until after the election, just for the sake of
organizational expediency. Besides, I'm a candidate and I'm terribly curious
to know the outcome <grin>.
Seriously, though, the staff has done this type of major upgrade on Grex a
couple of times in the last few years, to the Sun 3, then to the current
machine, and I'm sure that between the lot of them, they've covered almost
every possible contingency which would result in any major problem. You folks
are incredible! But the extra delay won't kill anybody, and it just makes
me all warm and fuzzy to think of the election going of in a timely fashion
followed by starting the new year on the new machine.
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aruba
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response 54 of 137:
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Nov 27 07:04 UTC 1997 |
Yeah, I agree with John, et. al., that we ought not to interrupt the vote.
I hope this doesn't break your momentum, Jan! But we've waited 10 1/2 months
already; we can afford to wait another two weeks.
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davel
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response 55 of 137:
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Nov 27 14:51 UTC 1997 |
Even if there are no problems, we're likely to have a good part of a day of
downtime in the changeover, right? Not good in the middle of a vote.
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srw
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response 56 of 137:
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Nov 30 07:29 UTC 1997 |
The total downtime expected is probably around 8 hours, but of course it
is not easy to predict. Presumably it would happen on a weekend, when
the load is lightest.
Well, I did my part last weekend to ready the 670 for use, though I have
not spent the most time of any staffer. If there is going to be no more
progress on it until January -- I'll be honest here, I wouldn't have
bothered if I had known that it was going to sit around for 5 weeks
after I got done. I felt pretty strongly that the Grex supporters had
pumped a lot of money into this machine and deserved to get to use it
ASAP. Further, I can see clear evidence that we are hurting badly due to
our current machine's inadequacies. When we do switch over, the same
risks will be there affecting other activities if not the vote.
Something is always going on on Grex. In other words, I disagree with
you all about this, but I'll just go away and work on something else.
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aruba
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response 57 of 137:
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Nov 30 12:52 UTC 1997 |
(The election ends December 15th, right? So we don't need to wait until
January.)
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other
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response 58 of 137:
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Nov 30 15:30 UTC 1997 |
Steve, we're not really talking about a very long delay. I'm surprised that
you're taking this view. i think the only reason those of us who advocate
the delay do so is because of the fundamental operational importance to Grex
of timely board elections, especially at a time when the organization is
likely to come under review for 501(c)3 consideration. I most definitely
appreciate all the hard work you and the other members of the staff have put
into preparing Grex for the move, and it is not at all my desire to delay it.
I just think it is a reasonable and sensible precaution.
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srw
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response 59 of 137:
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Nov 30 21:00 UTC 1997 |
I was thinking it would take us through December, So it is not as much
of a delay as I had realized. It is up to someone else to do a security
sweep on the OS, and then there is still a matter of finding a disk to
hold the mail spool. Presumably that could be done in a few days, but
it's my worry that no one is going to work on this for a while. It may
be a simple precaution you are asking for, but it demotivates working on
the system.
I jumped on the project, pushing a few things out of the way, with no
idea that it would then get put on hold. That was the cause of my
resentment. I was under the impression we really wanted this project
ASAP. You all blindsided me by asking for a delay. That's why I reacted
as I did.
It now looks like a bit of an overreaction. I honestly hope that the
security and other issues are dealt with in the next week or so, so that
we can go live with the 4/670 on December 16.
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lilmo
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response 60 of 137:
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Dec 1 04:20 UTC 1997 |
Thank you for being big enuf to admit you over-reacted a bit. I completely
understand how you felt: I've put in massive effort to get something done
by a deadline that was then pushed back. It kinda stings at first, but as
long as you don't nurse it, the resentment dies a lonely, painless death. :)
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aruba
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response 61 of 137:
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Dec 1 08:33 UTC 1997 |
I have been there too, and I'm sorry so see it inflicted on Steve & Jan and
the rest of the staff. (Frankly, I didn't realize you all were that close to
being ready.) I hope we can switch over as soon after the election as
possible.
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n8nxf
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response 62 of 137:
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Dec 3 17:33 UTC 1997 |
The work had to be done sooner or later. Sitting around for half a month
doesn't change that. Many of the big projects I work on never even see
the light of day because of management cuts, etc. You get use to it.
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janc
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response 63 of 137:
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Dec 4 00:53 UTC 1997 |
The sad thing is that while, yes, in theory there isn't more than a few days
of work to be done to get Grex switched over, in practice it is likely to be
a while before the appropriate people find time to do that work. When is
unpredictable. Yes, we could be up on the 670 three days from now, but in
real life there is going to be some random sized interval before that happens.
I worry that people will see the election as an excuse to delay doing work
now, and thus lose what momentum we have. But most likely we'll use the
December 12 staff meeting as a rabble-rousing session and see if we can get
things moving again then. "A New Grex for the New Year!" "Rah, Rah, Rah!"
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remmers
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response 64 of 137:
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Dec 4 14:00 UTC 1997 |
Is this primarily work that needs to be done on the 670 before
the actual switch-over?
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valerie
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response 65 of 137:
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Dec 4 16:47 UTC 1997 |
Yes.
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krj
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response 66 of 137:
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Dec 4 21:58 UTC 1997 |
Can't we set the end of the election as the target date for the cutover?
(Oooh, just what dpc likes, a deadline! :) )
If the cutover goes sour we can always announce the election results
on M-net.
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dpc
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response 67 of 137:
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Dec 5 23:52 UTC 1997 |
Yes, krj, I *do* like your suggestion for a deadline. 8-)
But seriously, I think that if we aim for December 16 we'll probably
get there.
By the way, how much of a speed increase will we get on the 670?
As srw says, we are *really* hurting on the present machine. Load averages
routinely over 20 are quite discouraging.
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kaplan
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response 68 of 137:
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Dec 6 00:24 UTC 1997 |
Didn't Marcus say he was expecting the 670 to be about 5 times faster?
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valerie
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response 69 of 137:
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Dec 6 14:23 UTC 1997 |
I've heard estimates that range from 2 to 5 times faster, though mostly it's
hard to predict.
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dang
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response 70 of 137:
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Dec 6 17:13 UTC 1997 |
It's hard to estimate, because the 670 is a multiprocessing machine (2 CPU's)
and we don't know what effect that will have. Certainly, it will be faster,
but how much faster is a guess.
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valerie
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response 71 of 137:
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Dec 7 22:47 UTC 1997 |
Yup, also the 670 has more "contexts" than the current Grex, which means that
it can "remember" what more people are doing before it starts having to write
the information to disk (swapping). We're not sure exactly how much it will
speed up Grex to have more contexts.
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srw
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response 72 of 137:
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Dec 8 02:30 UTC 1997 |
Someone could be doing a security check on the machine right now instead of
waiting until later.
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lilmo
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response 73 of 137:
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Dec 17 02:21 UTC 1997 |
Yea, staff!!! (Just kind of in general.)
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dpc
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response 74 of 137:
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Dec 18 15:56 UTC 1997 |
Valerie says that the staff will try to get the 670 working in
January and not before, because they're worried about what would
happen if we tried to get the thing up and then staff left for
the holidays, followed by a crash.
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