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Author Message
25 new of 166 responses total.
russ
response 50 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 01:55 UTC 2003

Re #39:  You mean "dar al Islam", as opposed to "dar al harb".

Re #40:  Yeah, so?  If the Palestinians won't root out the murderers
from their midst, they cannot expect to enjoy the benefits of
commerce with Israel.  They've got to make a choice.  If the king
of Jordan wants to keep his post, he'll push to get rid of Hamas
and the like.  The choices seem to be narrowing to peace and
coexistence, or regime change; the players may goof up, but the
incentives of the game sure look right.
scott
response 51 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 02:14 UTC 2003

Sheesh.  From Israel to the Freemasons... why I am bothering to argue with
this twit?
cross
response 52 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 02:50 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

scott
response 53 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 12:24 UTC 2003

Dan, if you really want to argue you're going to have to keep on target,
instead of posting long asides of questionable relevancy.  Imagine trying that
in a face-to-face argument, and you'll see my point.
oval
response 54 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 12:32 UTC 2003

the point you'll see will be the way the person is looking at you like you're
insane.

lk
response 55 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 13:34 UTC 2003

(Thanks for the correction, Russ. I knew it was wrong as I typed it but
was too tired to look it up and go back and correct it.)

Really, Dan, it's only ok for others (oval herself in #6, EArnal in #40)
to cut & paste lengthy texts. Seems as if the standard isn't the length
of an article but if said article is anti-Israel.

Scott really doesn't have much to say. His purpose here is to be a heckler.
He seems to enjoy that. Since I've tended to mock his bait, it seems as
if you'll be his new target. So don't expect him to respond to rational
arguments. Look for him to key in on one thing and use it as a distraction
to divert attention from the rest of what you said.

Note also his latest odious obfuscation, as if Israeli "extremists" who build
illegal settlments can be compared to Arab extremists who blow up buses
packed with civilians and pizzerias and ice-cream parlors filled with families
with children, or to Arab snipers who intentionally shoot babies sleeping in
their cribs, and to the murderers of mothers as they read bed-time stories
to their children and who shoot the children as the hide under the covers.

The PA refuses to arrest and disarm these butchers, but Scott doesn't see a
problem with that. The problem is that Israel doesn't throw the book at a
bunch of peaceful people who put up tents as a form of political protest
against the government's policies. That, he asserts, shows how beholden the
Israeli government is to this group....
scott
response 56 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 18:58 UTC 2003

I've been ignoring Leeron for the simple reason that he's not here to discuss,
he's here to browbeat using any dirty tactics he deems useful.
cross
response 57 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 20:34 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

scott
response 58 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 21:14 UTC 2003

Hey, I'm telling you under what circumstances I'll argue this subject.  I
don't bother with Leeron precisely because he wants to argue only on *his*
terms, with him as referee.
lk
response 59 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 9 23:45 UTC 2003

Funny, but for someone who "doesn't bother with Leeron", it's odd
that your last 3 responses have been about me.

You aren't "arguing". You are heckling. Precisely because you can't
address the substance of the issues. Even people who disagree with
my political outlook have commented on this in the past.

If you want to address the substance of what Dan (or I) said, here's
another opportunity to do so.  We'll see what road you choose to take.
cross
response 60 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 10 00:06 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

scott
response 61 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 10 04:06 UTC 2003

I've directly pointed out where we have differences of opinion, perhaps you
didn't notice that?
cross
response 62 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 10 20:04 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

scott
response 63 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 10 20:40 UTC 2003

Go back and read the item again, Dan.  I made several response explicitly
disagreeing with your position, among other things.
cross
response 64 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 11 14:46 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

scott
response 65 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 11 16:06 UTC 2003

Really?  How exactly does a phrase starting with "I just don't agree, Dan."
and following with my opinion NOT constitute discussion?
lk
response 66 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 11 17:01 UTC 2003

I recommend people re-read starting at #20 (Scott's first "response").

As I noted in #55:

> Look for him to key in on one thing and use it as a distraction
> to divert attention from the rest of what you said.

In Dan's case, it was the straw man that Dan is making a racist argument.
The rest of what Dan said fell on deaf ears, just as Scott didn't even
bother to address Eric's points (#21) or Joe's questions (#30).

One can also measure the amount of Scott's "discussion" by the length of his
responses. I'm not saying that one need write a dissertation for each
response, but can 2 and 3-line entries really make for an adequate discussion
of such a complex subject -- especially if half of it is about
meta-discussion?  And especially in response to a screenful or two that Dan
or others entered?

Responding to what Dan, Eric and Joe (or even I) said would be discussion.
Two-line straw men outbursts is heckling.

I'd almost think that Scott isn't aware of what he's doing, but he previously
admitted getting joy out of harassing people with strongly stated opinions.

Scott also gets the hypocrisy award for telling Grex how he ignores me after
talking about me in his previous 3 responses, but he has to share it with
Oval. She was critical of Dan for entering a lengthy (~80 line) cut & paste
text (to support what he was saying in the first half of his response) and
in #54 oval lambastes him for doing so, saying:

Oval> the point you'll see will be the way the person is looking at you like
    > you're insane.

So how are we supposed to look at oval, who posted a much longer (218 line)
spam-propaganda cut-and-paste job in response #6?

Sadly, Oval is more interested in silencing opposition than in discussion.
Recall that she exposed her own racist and hatist thought patterns, attempting
to silence me by threatening that because of me (my arguments on Grex) she's
likely to dislike all Jews.

If that weren't bad enough, I think she followed this up by saying that
anti-Semitism isn't really a problem.
scott
response 67 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 11 18:18 UTC 2003

Wow.  And all this time Leeron's been claiming that I'm obsessed with him,
and now we foind out the opposite is true.
cross
response 68 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 11 20:03 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

scott
response 69 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 11 21:08 UTC 2003

Well, I don't view these discussions as an Apocalyptic battle between the
forces of good and evil.  After butting heads with Leeron for a number of
Agoras I'm really not interested in spending a whole lot of time on the
subject, frankly.  Does that mean that my opinion is somehow flawed?  Or just
that we disagree not only on whose side has the bloodiest hands, but whether
participation in a short-lived item on an antique BBS requires a specific
level of discourse?
cross
response 70 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 12 00:29 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

lk
response 71 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 12 03:28 UTC 2003

Dan, if you think this is bad, you should look at Scott's record in those
other Agoras. But don't take it too seriously, just keep in mind that this
is Scott's way to have "fun". At this point it's hard to even say what
Scott truly believes -- he heckles for his own perverted personal enjoyment.

Which may explain why he didn't bother responding to gelinas and other.
That would entail a level of discussion beyond Scott's abilities or desire.

Indeed. Strange that first Scott contended that he was discussing the issues
yet now he says he's not that interested and lacks the time?  Yet he has
plenty of time for heckling and meta-discussion?

I'm readying the pop-corn in anticipation of Scott's next pot shot.
Let's just ignore them and continue the discussion.
If he wants he'll chime in with discussion. If not, then not.
polytarp
response 72 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 12 06:27 UTC 2003

If anyone'd like a good overview of Israel's terroristic land-grab wall, watch
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/IsraelsWall.mov.  It's what's
making even the pro-Zionist US Government upset.
scott
response 73 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 12 14:16 UTC 2003

Oh, I'd agree that Dan might find these items from past Agoras to be
enlightening - especially since some of the arguments don't quite match the
way Leeron likes to describe them now.

However, I'm not Leeron, and therefore I'm not going to assign several hours
of homework to Dan.
lk
response 74 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 12 15:17 UTC 2003

It's not a question of assigning "homework". It's a question of being able
to support what you say by citing at least one example.

Dan, you might find Agora40 Item 20, from response 251 onward, particularly
fascinating. Not just because of Scott's antics but for the content.

Now, back to discussion.

Today there were two suicide bombings in Israel (see item 27).
Both in areas without a security wall.

11:05   Terror attacks show importance of fence, which doesn`t surround
        Rosh Ha`ayin or Ariel 
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