response 50 of 72:

Aug 28 13:05 UTC 2005

My cousin Settimio in New York (we call him "Babe") will take care of 
Grex's little problem, but it's gonna cost you. 

Or, you could just learn to enjoy the little ones -- make them take 
off their muddy shoes before coming in, shush them when the grownups 
are talking, clean up their messes, tell them when they're doing well, 
give them the occasional time out, and enourage them to sit up 
straight and finish their vegetables. 

response 52 of 72:

Aug 28 20:08 UTC 2005

McNally correctly points out, and Ryan apparently agrees, that major
changes to system policy would be needed to implement selective
exclusion of users.  Eliminating newuser, or comparably drastic
measures.  So maybe this is a good time to remind folks that Grex is a
Michigan corporation with a set of bylaws that it is legally obligated
to follow.  These specify a governance structure and policy-making
procedures.

Structure:  Grex has members (people who pay dues, get to vote, and have
a few additional perks such as outgoing telnet access), a board of
directors (elected by the members), and a technical staff (appointed by
the board and responsible for implementing policies and keeping the
system running).

Procedures:  The technical staff doesn't make policy, it's job is to
implement it and to keep the system running.  Policy is made by the
board or by member vote.  Traditionally, the board deals mainly deals
with things that involve money issues - hardware upgrades, rent,
insurance, etc. - with more far-reaching changes to the user experience
- access policies, etc. - being enacted by member vote.

I think that any change in newuser, mail access, posting privileges,
anything like that - should be by vote of the members.  The bylaws
specify how this works - member makes a proposal in a new coop item,
there's open discussion for a set period of time, 10% of the members
have to endorse bringing the proposal to a vote, proposer submits final
wording, then a vote takes place by secret online ballot over a period
of days.  (For text of the bylaws, see item 2 of this conference or go
to http://grex.org/local/grex/bylaws.html)

Several policies have come into existence by member vote.  (And several
proposals have failed, as well.)  See the "Grex Member Votes" webpage
(http://grex.org/local/grex/votes.html) for a history.

Actually, I'd like to see people's ideas for improving the Grex
experience.  And maybe I personally find annoying some of the same users
that Ryan and other find annoying.  Perhaps that's the price you have to
pay to have the things that one likes about Grex, perhaps not.  But just
bear in mind that for anything to change, you have to have a concrete,
technically feasible proposal, and you have to persuade enough people
that it's a good idea to vote it in.

response 54 of 72:

Aug 29 01:31 UTC 2005

or you could go join the well or the wall or whatever that pay for chat site
is and then see how long they put up with your baby whining bullshit.

response 56 of 72:

Aug 29 04:00 UTC 2005

Shutting off newuser would be lame.

response 58 of 72:

Aug 29 20:21 UTC 2005

Shutting down newuser will kill kittens.

response 60 of 72:

Aug 29 22:40 UTC 2005

I am not a paying member. If newuser is shut down I will stop using grex and
encourage any grexer with whom i might have any influence to do likewise.

response 62 of 72:

Aug 30 03:53 UTC 2005

I'm a member and I try not to touch anybody's vast vast vast anything without
gloves first.

response 64 of 72:

Aug 30 07:08 UTC 2005

thanks, naftee

response 66 of 72:

Aug 30 18:52 UTC 2005

It bears pointing out that the political climate is still changing in 
this country.  With a more conservative congress and a more 
conservative judiciary, and acts like the Patriot Act already on the 
books, it is likely there will be another attempt to push through a 
version of the Communications Decency Act.

It is conceivable that grex may one day not be able to exist in its 
current form due to new censorship laws.  Grex with its open newuser 
provides uncensored content that children can read, and laws could 
easily come that would require grex to censor its own material and age-
verify its users.

So the question may be, do you wait until you are forced to do things 
differently, or do you attempt to adjust now so that there is more time 
to find changes that are acceptable?  For grex to do nothing belies the 
dark future that may await it in the years to come as this country gets 
swallowed up in paranoia.

response 68 of 72:

Aug 30 21:01 UTC 2005

YES!  Go Sealand!

response 70 of 72:

Aug 30 21:49 UTC 2005

I don't think anyone wants Newuser shut down.  I certainly don't.  But 
what I do know is that our policies act as a filter for the users we 
attract.  By staying wide open we don't appeal to everyone.  Just as a 
verified system doesn't appeal to everyone.  Everyone checking us out 
decides if the content is worth their time.  It's the content that is 
the deal breaker, not the gate.  

To a great degree I think we've worked ourselves into a positon where we 
are stuck with our course.  We don't have enough users that if we had 
the BIG BATTLE over verification, the remaining folks would make 
critical mass.  Yet our content now is pretty thin and the community 
ingrown.  I suspect many of us are here because of momentum and habit.  
I still enjoy Grex but I'm also glad there are other communities out 
there.

response 72 of 72:

May 17 02:15 UTC 2006

TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE