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| Author |
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| 16 new of 65 responses total. |
aruba
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response 50 of 65:
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Nov 17 20:39 UTC 1999 |
Oops, my mistake.
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devnull
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response 51 of 65:
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Nov 23 03:52 UTC 1999 |
One of the things I'd be curious about is whether getting a T1 provisioned
as some number of B channels for dialups, and some fraction of a T1 for
data, might make sense for grex at some point.
I don't know what's available in Ann Arbor, but I know that in Boston,
it's possible to get service from ALS (AT&T Local Service), and they can
provision a T1 line with some number of voice channels, and up to 6 channels
as a fractional T1 for data. I'm not at all sure what the pricing on this
service is, but I get the impression that it might be somewhere vaguely
around $500 a month. (I also don't know whether Ann Arbor even has
competitive local exchange carriers.)
It seems that if grex could get a quarter T1 for data, and enough lines
for all the dialups, for some sane amount of money, that might be the logical
upgrade path. Admittedly, it probably will be more expensive than what grex
has now. It isn't quite clear to me whether grex could really afford
another $200 a month (and in guessing that $500 would be the price on a T1,
I could be off by hundreds of dollars in either direction).
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gull
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response 52 of 65:
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Nov 23 05:35 UTC 1999 |
Don't forget the cost of the equipment to connect the T1 to, at Grex's end.
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srw
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response 53 of 65:
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Nov 26 22:32 UTC 1999 |
I think the costs are far higher. There are two costs with getting a T1
- (1) the cost of the connection and (2) the cost of having them route
packets onto the internet over that connection. I'm not sure you get all
that and the phone lines too, for that one price.
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scg
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response 54 of 65:
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Nov 28 07:10 UTC 1999 |
In terms of monthly charges, there are three components to a T1 that cost
money. You two local loops (one for each end), and then channel milage
charges for the interconnection between the two local loops, if they go from
different Ameritech COs. Then you need to pay for any services that ride on
top of the T1, such as phone lines or Internet access.
The local loops come in a number of forms. A DS0 is one 64K or 56K channel.
A T1 local loop is 24 DS0s. A DS3 local loop is 28 T1s. An OC3 local loop
is three DS3s. And so forth. All of those local loops except the DS0 can
be ordered clear channel or channelized. The simplest form of T1 has a T1
local loop on each end, and 24 channels going between the two local loops.
If you have multiple T1s on one of the ends, you can use a channel of a
channelized DS3 local loop on that end instead. If you wanted to use only
half a T1 for data, and the other half for phone lines, you could order a
channelized T1 local loop for your end of the circuit, a full T1 local loop
at the other end of the Internet connection, and then interconnect the first
12 channels of the local loop at the other end to 12 of the channels on the
channelized T1. Then you could order 12 phone lines to go on the other 12
channels of the channelized T1. Alternatively, you could bring multiple
fractional T1s in from various different locations and combine them all on
the single channelized T1, as long as you didn't need more than 24 channels.
There are any number of ways you could configure such a setup.
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mdw
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response 55 of 65:
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Nov 28 07:49 UTC 1999 |
I suspect we'd need some other equipment to deal with the channelized T1
-- a PBX to convert the phone circuits into analog phone lines? Some
sort of demultiplexer to take the incoming T1 line and channelize it (or
does the phone company supply that?) Etc.
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scg
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response 56 of 65:
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Nov 28 16:33 UTC 1999 |
The phone company generally does not supply the equipment for the customer's
end. If you're ordering the Internet service from an ISP, they may or may
not supply the equipment, but they generally charge more if they do.
At work, we've got a T1 that does part data and part voice. We've got a
channel bank plugged into it that spits out 12 of the lines as analog POTS
lines vi a RJ-11 jacks, and then also has a v.35 port on it, which we plug
into the router to handle the other 12 channels. There are also various
routers and CSU/DSUs that have drop and insert functionality, such that they
will take the full channelized T1 in one port, use part of it, and send the
rest out another T1 port. All of these solutions are probably beyond the
scope of Grex's budget.
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prp
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response 57 of 65:
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Dec 1 04:51 UTC 1999 |
Re 24: Is that two 64K Full Duplex channels, two 64K HDX channels, or one
64K channel in each direction?
Re 54: Is DS0 64K FDX or HDX?
Any idea what MediaOne would charge for an Internet connection?
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gelinas
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response 58 of 65:
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Dec 1 05:17 UTC 1999 |
Yes. I had occasion to look it up this morning, for a class I'm teaching.
Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact price. However, while I saw lots
of mention of "two-way Internet", their emphasis seemed to be on "one-way
Internet": A cable-modem in, and a 14.4 kbps (up to 33.3 kbps) modem out.
Of course, they are aiming at the residential market, not the business
market. Two-way Internet Service provides 1.5MB in and 300Kbps out.
For a home without cable TV, it's $44.95 per month, and they only
support Win95/98 in Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti; no NT or Macintoshes need apply.
Installation is $99.95.
Or so says their web page, http://www.mediaone.net, although it might be
easier to start at
http://www.mediaonerr.com/homeframe.cfm
(Make sure JAVA and Javascript are turned on before you start. I'm not
sure which one it uses, but without them, nothing works.)
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scg
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response 59 of 65:
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Dec 2 03:05 UTC 1999 |
Did the future planning meeting happen? I haven't heard anything about it
since before its scheduled time. Was anything discussed or decided there?
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aruba
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response 60 of 65:
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Dec 2 04:15 UTC 1999 |
Ack - yes, it happened. We were all going to enter our impressions of what
was discussed, but haven't gotten around to it, I guess.
I thought it was a good meeting, and I'll share my impressions when I have
a little more time.
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lilmo
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response 61 of 65:
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Dec 2 21:12 UTC 1999 |
In a different item, or more than one, I trust.
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devnull
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response 62 of 65:
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Dec 5 23:23 UTC 1999 |
Re #55: I think a cisco 3620 with the appropriate interface will be able
to cope with a T1 that's provisioned as a fractional T1 for data, and
channelized dialups on the rest of the T1. I believe with that configuration,
the 3620 would contain the modems; you'd never actually break it out into
individual POTS lines.
(Of course, it might be worth also having a POTS line for the staff dialup
or something, so you can debug things when the T1 goes down.)
Price tag is probably somewhere around $10,000 for the router.
Yes, this is probably well beyond grex's present budget. Think of it as
something that would be interesting to do if we can find a large corporation
which has too much money that would be interested in supporting grex.
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hhsrat
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response 63 of 65:
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Dec 11 03:36 UTC 1999 |
Maybe Grex needs a corporate benefactor, who would provide a one time
monetary donation to be used for new equipment. In return, they would
get a tax break, and a message in the MOTD "Thanks to Parke Davis for
donating a CISCO Router"
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devnull
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response 64 of 65:
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Dec 11 03:48 UTC 1999 |
Oh, it's probably worth noting that you probably could get the high-end
Cyclades router and use that; price is probably closer to $4000.
But still, it doesn't fit grex's current bank account too well.
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jazz
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response 65 of 65:
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Jan 23 03:12 UTC 2000 |
Although it's a common corporate internal network set-up to use several
of the ds-0 channels on a physical t-1 line for analog phone calls, and the
rest for data, it's a very unusual thing to see in internet service. It might
be most productive to propose a provider for this sort of thing (unless Dorian
Kim was willing to do this) before considering the hardware necessary for the
configuration - it'd likely be cheaper to have the modems terminate somewhere
else and be hauled over a fractional or full t-1. Though both of those seem
very expensive.
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