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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 220 responses total. |
scg
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response 5 of 220:
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Jan 28 04:29 UTC 1999 |
I think this story sounds much more encouraging once Valerie or Jan ads their
bit to it.
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rtg
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response 6 of 220:
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Jan 28 06:00 UTC 1999 |
I don't know if it would help, but I'd be willing to donate a used
watt-hour meter, so that we could pay for our exact usage, and not have to
negotiate around estimates.
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mdw
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response 7 of 220:
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Jan 28 06:18 UTC 1999 |
Unfortunately, I think the exact measure of electricity is the least of
our problems.
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aruba
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response 8 of 220:
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Jan 28 15:03 UTC 1999 |
Actually, I think that might help a lot, Rick; could we plug that into the
wall and then plug everything into that? We use about 8.3 amps of power.
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steve
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response 9 of 220:
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Jan 28 15:11 UTC 1999 |
Rick, that would be excellent! Yes, we could certainly use it.
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keesan
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response 10 of 220:
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Jan 28 16:00 UTC 1999 |
We have another meter (don't ask where it came from) and box to plug it into.
The meter may not be accurate but the box is. Presumably.
As an official nonprofit, would we have better chances of getting a donated
windowless closet somewhere else now? (I would love to see grex in the space
now being used by the Kiwanis electronics department, if they follow through
on the promise to give us a larger upstairs space and get some more
cooperation between the groups. Kiwanis can only benefit by having more
computer nerds in there. Actually it would make more sense to have the new
electronics dept, if it ever gets built, shared with grex, since we would have
a separate entrance with a key. In exchange grex members might be able to
maintain a kiwanis webpage and give lessons to members on how to use the web.
But this building project is a year or more off, if at all. How much actual
floorspace, not counting chair space, would the grex computers occupy?)
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steve
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response 11 of 220:
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Jan 28 17:12 UTC 1999 |
Our current room is about 11 x 11, which is nice. It's given us the ability
to have stuff we don't need lying around, which means we have some space to
grow. If we weeded out all the stuff we aren't using, we'd need less space
except that in times of need (disasters which require several people, or
setting up extra/ new comptuers) we'd be hard pressed. So 100 square feet
would be good.
Its certainly something to think about, being in a building like the
Kiwanis.
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scott
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response 12 of 220:
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Jan 28 18:18 UTC 1999 |
We would need 24hr access, though.
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scg
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response 13 of 220:
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Jan 28 18:32 UTC 1999 |
If we didn't have 24 hour access, it would likely mean that if Grex crashed
in the middle of the night, it would stay down until morning. That doesn't
happen very often at this point, and when it does, Grex often stays down until
morning, not for lack of access, but for lack of somebody feeling like going
out in the middle of the night to deal with it. So, while 24 hour access is
nice, it's something that needs to be looked at along with all the other
strengths and weaknesses of various locations. Grex being down for a night
happens occasionally, and it's not the end of the world.
If we had to, we could fit everything Grex is running into a 19" rack, but
we would have to find somewhere to store the stuff we aren't using. Grex's
current spread out nature has some nice advantages, but anybody who has spent
any amount of time in the Internet industry very quickly learns that using
that much space on that small amount of equipment is completely unrealistic.
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steve
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response 14 of 220:
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Jan 28 20:28 UTC 1999 |
Let us not fall into the trap of thinking that 24 hour access is "nice".
It isn't only nice, it is vital. As Grex grows so does the need to keep it
running. If we are routinely denied access to the hardware there will come
a point where we will sorely regret that.
Right now its easy to say that access isn't a problem. Right now there
are days at a time when no one goes to the Pumpkin and all our work on the
system is remote. Times are good right now, hardware wise. I'm not
entirely surprised at the reliability of the 4/670, but I am thankful. As
we grow we'll be adding more hardware for services (mail machine, kerberos,
etc) and however good things are there is still the need to have physical
access to thinks. For me, right now, I can't normally get to the hardware
during the day. I could take a day off, or perhaps spend a little time
before my morning commute, but the vast majority of my time to work on
stuff is at night. Thats true for at least other staff, too.
For a commercial venture I would agree with you Steve that the space is
unrealistic, but not for a group like ours. We don't have the money to
do things as efficiently in some ways--we can't spend the time as a real
world company does when working on a problem, as one example.
This is why I partly shudder when I think about relocating next to an
ISP. Unless we're really lucky we're going to lose some access to our
hardware, and even if we don't we'll not be in the same position to store
things, etc that we have with the Pumpkin.
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scg
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response 15 of 220:
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Jan 29 00:54 UTC 1999 |
One main difference between Grex's operations and those of an ISP is that if
an ISP is down for several hours, there are angry customers demanding to know
why it isn't working. With a low budget volunteer organization, occasional
downtime is a much less severe problem. Yes, 24 hour access is nice. So are
a lot of other things. In evaluation locations we would have to look at all
the factors, and decide what tradeoffs were worth making.
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mdw
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response 16 of 220:
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Jan 29 02:13 UTC 1999 |
When grex first started up, we didn't have 24 hour access. For a while,
it didn't matter. Then something happened to the hardware, and it
became flakey. And it stayed flakey, for over a year, because we
couldn't just go in when it died and hack at it until we got it fixed.
That hurt us, after a while.
24 hour access isn't just "nice". It *is* a necessity for us.
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steve
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response 17 of 220:
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Jan 29 02:42 UTC 1999 |
Steve... I do agree that Grex is not a business, but that doesn't mean
that we shouldn't strive to be as close to a professional an organization
as possible.
What Marcus says is correct. The Sun-3 with the 2G disk and two
SCSI controllers turned out to be a nightmare and wasn't easily dealt
with when Grex was in the warehouse. That cost Grex a lot, in terms
of usage, newusers, members and what people thought of us.
We really don't want to slide back to that kind of environment
again unless we simply can't help it.
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kaplan
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response 18 of 220:
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Jan 29 03:01 UTC 1999 |
When we moved to the Pumpkin, we did not have the 501(c)3. Now that we do,
there might be some better and/or cheaper places we could go. Maybe it would
be worth negotiating for a lease where the rent includes a reasonable amount
of electricity.
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steve
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response 19 of 220:
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Jan 29 03:16 UTC 1999 |
Thats always a possibility.
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keesan
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response 20 of 220:
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Jan 29 03:52 UTC 1999 |
Does any grex member have an underutilized basement? Maybe with an outside
entrance to it? And no windows in one room? And enough electric power?
Jim does not think Kiwanis would allow access to anybody unless we were there
to supervise, they are already making an exception for us nonmember of K.
But we might be able to store some grex stuff there eventually. Not now.
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robh
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response 21 of 220:
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Jan 29 04:35 UTC 1999 |
My balcony is available. And there's a power outlet. >8)
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krj
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response 22 of 220:
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Jan 29 05:20 UTC 1999 |
Way back, it was suggested that Valerie had a more optimistic
continuation of the story... we'd better get it in here before
Grex starts packing...
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rtg
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response 23 of 220:
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Jan 29 07:32 UTC 1999 |
I would think 24hr access would be mandatory. Not so much for the
emergency midnight runs, but you certainly wouldn't want to be kicked out
at 5PM when the hosting business insists on locking the doors.
Another consideration is that we don't have a full-time staff, so a
corner of a retail establishment would be difficult to maintain the
physical security our system needs. The grex machines in the corner of
the Kiwanis electronics department is sure to be crashed frequently as a
shopper thinks it's just another used machine to 'check out'...
My watthour meter is a used pull-out DE unit. I don't have the
enclosure for it, so coming up with a UL8" wide.
that are about 2' tall, and 8" deep and
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mdw
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response 24 of 220:
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Jan 29 10:54 UTC 1999 |
(It would have to be a shopper who is into weight lifting...)
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richard
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response 25 of 220:
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Jan 29 22:51 UTC 1999 |
maybe grex could take over mnet's lease at new center-- mnet would
probably benefit at this point (given its situation) if it could get
out of its lease and move someplace cheaper (like somebody's house)
As a 501(3)(c), grex would qualify to be a tenant at the New Center
now right? worth considering.
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mdw
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response 26 of 220:
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Jan 30 00:49 UTC 1999 |
The problem with the new center is that they're supposed to only be a
"temporary" home. They expect to have young rich start-ups there, who
will then graduate to more permanent homes elsewhere. We don't really
fit their mold, because we're looking for cheap long-term housing.
Also, I don't think m-net can afford to move at this point.
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scg
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response 27 of 220:
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Jan 30 01:41 UTC 1999 |
(right, I don't think a 9-5 space would work for us, but I don't think a space
that closed from, say midnight until 6 am or so would be the end of the world,
especially if it came with other things that were useful to us, such as a fast
Net connection)
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steve
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response 28 of 220:
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Jan 30 02:26 UTC 1999 |
It wouldn't be the end of the world but it would hurt Grex. The last
two of three times I've gone to the Pumpkin to fix Grex was bwtween 12 and
6AM.
The New center isn't supposed to be a permenent place. Given that, I'd
be very wary of moving there considering that we're going to wind up spending
$1000 to move after everything is considered.
Also, this is to state that I hope Grex can't get in there, in
that M-Net should stay there.
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krj
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response 29 of 220:
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Jan 30 03:17 UTC 1999 |
A cursory reading of the most recent financial reports indicate
that Grex pays $63 in Pumpkin room rent plus an additional $66 in
electricity, while M-net pays $180 for New Center rent, which I am
going to guess includes the electricity.
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