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25 new of 69 responses total.
clees
response 38 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 11 11:49 UTC 1999

It's the ideal picture, the unreachable, super model type of beauty
that pushes ordinary people (with common worries and joys) into the
pit of bodily despair.
I am not really dissatisfied with the way I look. I like my body to be 
tight (at least). No muscles, but no obesity either. As long as I feel 
physically fit, I am doing fine.
Beauty is what you feel about yourself. When you feel 
pretty/handsome/gorgeous/sexy etc., you are pretty etc. because you will
 radiate this to the outside world, who will notcie it. Over the years I
have come to terms with the fact that I am skinny, and  that I no matter
what excercise I put into it, no muscles will develop,  no sixpack for a
stomach. On a whole I feel good about myself.

The hard part is the coming to terms with your own flaws when the media 
are all about beautiful people. Just take alook at the average soap or 
movie.
That's why it's a good thing that a sitcom like Roseanne became so 
popular. The people pictured are much closer to reality than, let's say 
the Bold and the Beautiful, even though the characters in Roseanne are 
witty beyond reality.
md
response 39 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 11 12:45 UTC 1999

As a result of a playground accident when she
was 8, my 13-year-old daughter has a scar under 
her right eye.  It's smallish -- about 1" -- but 
very distinct.  Yesterday I caught her smiling 
into a mirror.  When I asked her what she was 
doing, she said, "Just looking at my face. I 
*love* my scar." "You do?"  "Yeah, it looks just 
like the Nike logo!"  
beeswing
response 40 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 12 18:35 UTC 1999

Sounds like you've raised a confident daughter, Michael... I was a total 
bag of insecurities when I was 13. 
md
response 41 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 12 22:12 UTC 1999

Thank you, bees.  Looks like I've also raised a 
very brand-name-conscious daughter, so much so 
that she even loves her scar if it looks like a 
Nike logo.
glenda
response 42 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 12 23:54 UTC 1999

Staci is 12.

Staci split her head open just below the hair line, dead center; school wanted
us to take her to the Dr and have it stitched; STeve brought her to me at work
and I tape stitched it (it was only about 3/4" long and superficial, just
bleed like crazy as head wounds are apt to do).  She has a scar you really
have to look for to see.  She's proud of it.  She also fractured her arm in
that little episode and the school said nothing about the arm.

My sister gave Staci her old bike when she got a new one.  The first time
Staci took it out she didn't realize just how much of a slope our apartment
building is on and it sort of got away from her.  She came in with a chuck
of flesh out of her knee.  I finally got it cleaned out and bandaged it up,
felt that it probably could use a couple of stitches since it was a bit
deeper than I like to tape stitch.  I called STeve to come home since it was
also bleeding quite a bit.  By the time he got home from Lansing it had pretty
much stopped bleeding so we just bandaged it up and sent her to bed.  As it
started healing she kept saying that she had a hole in her knee and how cool
that was.  She was very disappointed that the hole completely filled in and
the scar became faint.

The cyst she had removed from her shoulder developed a nasty ketoid type scar
that she thinks is really neat and often shows off by wearing spaghetti strap
tank tops.
md
response 43 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 13 00:00 UTC 1999

Sounds exactly like our Lauren.  After entering
the above #41, I asked my wife if she could think
of any insecurities, adolescent or otherwise,
that Lauren might have.  We honestly can't think 
of a single one.
glenda
response 44 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 13 01:29 UTC 1999

Same here.  The only thing that seems to bother her is riding the AATA
alone.  She had to yesterday morning since she screwed up her alarm
and didn't get up on time and I have an 8am class with a quiz first
thing.  She said it was fun so that is over.

She does get very pissed at Damon when he calls her fat, but I think
she would get just as pissed if he called her skinny.  One of those
big brother, little sister things.  She is a bit pudgy, is aware of
it, but does worry about it much beyond saying that she should ride
her bike more.
swa
response 45 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 24 20:32 UTC 1999

Why is it that it's quite fashionable to hate your appearance, but utterly
taboo to love it?  The other day I was looking in the mirror and thinking,
"Hmm, I like the way I look today," and then realized that to say so
publicly would be considered very vain.  Yet all the time you hear people
say loudly and publicly, "I'm so fat," or other such self-denunciations.
Seems like a weird double standard, in that you're allowed to completely
obsess about your appearance only if you do so in a negative manner --
otherwise you must be indifferent.


i
response 46 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 24 21:03 UTC 1999

"I'm happy I'm so rich!" vs. "I'm bummed that I'm broke" comes under
the same double standard (IMO).  What other attributes are considered
bad vs. okay to vocalize this way?
mooncat
response 47 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 25 05:07 UTC 1999

Sara- yeah, I've noticed the same thing.  Personally, I don't think there's
anything wrong if someone is happy with their appearance.  For the most 
part, I think I look pretty okay.  Yeah, I'd like to lose some weight, but
overall- I'm not bad looking.  Yet to say that I may come off as sounding
horribly vain.  That could be part of it, people don't want to sound vain-
and I guess you're only considered vain if you say positive things about
yourself.  For me, I think it's healthier for people to be honest about
themselves- and think that while they're not 'God's gift' they're not
hideous either... Does this make any sense?

keesan
response 48 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 26 00:27 UTC 1999

Is this something to do with the evil eye.  (You must not praise anyone or
the evil eye will find them.)
The trick is to tell someone else how nice they look and they will
reciprocate.
mooncat
response 49 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 26 11:30 UTC 1999

I've been finding lately that when I compliment people they have to
disagree.  I don't think it really has anything to do with the 'evil
eye' so much as we're not supposed to honeslty think well of our
appearance. I've been given the occasional compliment that I didn't
agree with- but I was raised to just say thank you. <grins> I actually
kind of bothers me when I tell someone "Wow, you look great" or something
and they say "no, I don't." <shrugs>

orinoco
response 50 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 26 17:41 UTC 1999

But for some people, it's difficult to accept compliments.  It takes effort
for me to just say "thank you" rather than disagreeing or getting defensive.
Not sure why that is.
mooncat
response 51 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 26 20:17 UTC 1999

Hmm, do you feel like the compliment is inappropriate or wrong?

I was just taught that it just makes the complimentor feel better if you
just smile politely and say "Thank you."  I've also noticed that I have
an easier time with things like clothes, then things attached to me-
for example "I really like that outfit" as opposed to "Your hair looks
really good cut like that."  Thie first is easier for me to feel good
about and the second makes me fight the 'no, it doesn't, really' reply.

beeswing
response 52 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 26 23:30 UTC 1999

I get that with the "Ooh you've lost weight" compliment... most of the 
time I haven't lost weight. It's either the clothes or maybe I've lost 
inches, but not weight. Not sure how to respond because if I say "No, I 
haven't!" it's interpreted as: "Nooo! I'm a big fat cow!", when I'm just 
saying I have not actually lost weight. I usually respond with a "Dunno, 
I don't have a scale at home." Which is the truth. 
keesan
response 53 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 30 00:26 UTC 1999

I tell people working at the library or the bank that I like their clothing.
They are generally ignored as part of the machinery.  Every one has thanked
me, as have random strangers on the street when I admired the color of their
skirt.  (I have not tried complimenting the opposite sex, maybe I should as
an experiment, and report back.)  Has anyone tried complimenting a man on his
appearance?  Are men allowed to say thank you?
orinoco
response 54 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 30 05:22 UTC 1999

People sometimes tell me they like a t-shirt I'm wearing, but that's not
really the same sort of thing.  I don't think anyone's ever complimented me
out of the blue on "real" clothing I'm wearing.  Of course, given the amount
of effort I put into what I wear, that's hardly surprising....
abc
response 55 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 30 14:33 UTC 1999

What?  T-shirts aren't real clothing?  Um...**looks into closet** Hmm...
orinoco
response 56 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 30 16:31 UTC 1999

Meaning when I get a compliment on a t-shirt, it's because someone thinks the
slogan is funny, not because they think I've got amazing fashion sense.
"Real" probably was the wrong choice of words.
abc
response 57 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 30 22:04 UTC 1999

It's a compliment on your sense of humor as opposed to sense of fashion.

If I actually thought about fashion before getting dressed every morning, I
might as well crawl back into bed.  In the few times that I need to care what
I look like, I always get a second opinion.  
keesan
response 58 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 30 23:16 UTC 1999

Orinoco, if some friend said they liked the way your hair looked today, how
would you respond?
orinoco
response 59 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 30 23:27 UTC 1999

I'd probably say "thanks" and change the subject.  (Although it would feel
a little weird taking credit for the state of my hair, since how it is when
I wake up is how it is all day).  
scott
response 60 of 69: Mark Unseen   Oct 31 02:29 UTC 1999

I'd ask them what they thought if I shaved it all off.  ;)  I've been known
to do that sort of thing.
clees
response 61 of 69: Mark Unseen   Nov 1 09:09 UTC 1999

Beauty and looking great is, in my view, mostly determined by how 
someone feels about himself.
Because when you do, you will radiate this into the outer world and 
people will mainly notice that. 
A low self esteem in that prospect is very deadly, but it can be oh so 
hard to come terms with how you look and what your appearance is like.

I have known, and still do, people who are by no means the example of 
what the media define as gorgeous, but they still have that effect on me
  of mesmirizing and admiring them for the great beauty they have got.
On  the other hand can very beautiful/handsome people have no such
effect on  me whatsoever. Maybe that's why people who are very in love
can be so  beautiful.

For instance, I am skinny beyond anything. When in the States there was 
this hotelroom in Las Vegas with a huge mirror in the bathroom. Very 
confronting when opening the shower curtain I can tell you. For the 
first time in years I could see myself from head to toe, and I thought 
to myself: 'God! You are skinny, Rick!'
Yet, currently I feel very happy with the body and looks I have got. 
It's is lean and tight muscled even though it's not much. I simply love 
my hints towards a six pack at my abs. 
It doesn't bother me anymore not having broad shoulders, arms like tree 
trunks and wings at my back.
Is this vain? I don't think so, it has taken me years to accept my body 
for what it is, and I think I'd hate it to change at all, right now.
swa
response 62 of 69: Mark Unseen   Nov 9 01:23 UTC 1999

Re 50: I'm the same way about compliments.  I try to dismiss them as much
as possible.  I don't know quite why, and on some logical level I know
it's silly.  Last year in a writing workshop class I was taking, the class
was commenting on things they liked about one of my essays, and I kept
instinctively responding with comments like, "Well, thank you, but this is
really very rough and I was just sort of making it up as I was going along
and..."  Finally one of my friends who was in the class took me aside and
said, "You know, Sara, you don't need to argue when people say nice things
about your writing.  It's really okay to let them compliment you."  But
this doesn't naturally occur to me - I think somehow, instinctively, I do
assume that the evil eye is going to get me or some such.

With myself it's mostly *skills* that I feel defensive about being
complimented about -- whether writing or photography or underwater
basketweaving or whatever.  Maybe I just have trouble thinking of myself
as a creative person, or maybe it's just an awareness that even at things 
I can do sort of well there is still so much to learn. When I *give*
compliments to others, though, it's
the compliments on how they look that I notice being refuted the most.
Somehow allowing oneself to think, "hmm, I look nice today," makes them
feel guilty, as if that statement were the same as "I am the most
beautiful person in the universe and everyone should worship me as a
goddess."  I've noticed this more with physical than with other
attributes.  Not sure why this is.

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