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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 216 responses total. |
albaugh
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response 35 of 216:
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Nov 9 17:47 UTC 2000 |
You all can learn as I have: This would *not* be the first time US history
that the popular vote leader did not win the EC, though it would be the first
time since 1888. Go to http://www.avagara.com/e_c/ and read all about it.
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eeyore
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response 36 of 216:
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Nov 9 17:54 UTC 2000 |
If almost 20k ballots in Palm Beach got dq'd, then are they going to have a
repoll? At this point, I think that would only be fair, since there was
obviously a problem of some sort.
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remmers
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response 37 of 216:
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Nov 9 17:57 UTC 2000 |
Right. I believe there were three previous instances, all in the
19th century.
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birdy
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response 38 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:08 UTC 2000 |
One question on NPR today was, "If they do a repoll, do only the voters who
voted get to vote, or can other people come out now that they know how much
influence they'll have?" One good answer was, "It's sad that it would take
something like this to get people to realize that their vote and EVERY vote
counts and matters." Bravo.
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gull
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response 39 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:21 UTC 2000 |
I hadn't realized that some states (Maine and Nebraska) actually split up
their electoral college votes by congressional district. Though in this
election all four of Maine's votes went to Gore, for a while it was possible
they might split 3-1. This seems reasonable to me, and I'm curious why more
states don't do it that way.
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krj
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response 40 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:32 UTC 2000 |
Birdy in resp:34 :: Actually it was the Democrats and Gore who carried
most of the big states, with the exception of Texas.
In this election there's a sharp correlation between population
density and how an area voted, I'll try to dig out the quote
from (I think) the Washington Post.
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danr
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response 41 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:39 UTC 2000 |
Like Sarah and Ann, I also don't see how the Electroral College helps prevent
smaller states from getting the shaft. It was quite evident in this election
that neither candidate cared much about the smaller states. Why not? They
didn't have enough electoral votes.
The Electoral College was originally set up so that the number of electors was
proportional to the number of people in a state, including slaves. This gave a
disproportionate weight to voters in the southern states. It was part of the
political balance needed then, but now we have an entirely different political
climate and it should be abolished.
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richard
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response 42 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:40 UTC 2000 |
with 45 of 67 counties reporting, bush's lead is now down to 795 votes
and there's a hearing in federal court this afternoon on palm beach
county residents who have filed suit requesting a re-vote.
geez, if this was a movie script, it would get rejected for being too
far fetched
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birdy
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response 43 of 216:
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Nov 9 19:56 UTC 2000 |
Ken - I was speaking in general, not necessarily about this election even
though I used Gore and Bush as examples. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. =)
I believe Vermont splits their two electoral votes. Since Gore and Bush had
roughly 50% each, they each got one electoral vote. I thought that was kinda
cool and a much better way to do it. According to Anne, who gave me this
info, it's up to each state to decide whether or not they want to do it this
way.
This would encourage the candidates to campaign in each state and not leave
out the "non-important" small states.
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bru
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response 44 of 216:
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Nov 9 20:03 UTC 2000 |
We are seeing it in action right now. Most of the smaller EC states went to
Bush. Most of the major population areas went to Gore. So while the vote
is fairly even, the major states are not going to get their way with the
smaller states. Now, if Gore gets Florida, the majority will get the man of
their choice, but without a mandate.
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aaron
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response 45 of 216:
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Nov 9 20:24 UTC 2000 |
The majority of whom? Gore won the popular vote.
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richard
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response 46 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:12 UTC 2000 |
with 58 of 67 counties reporting down in florida, bush lead now down to
403 votes. Nine counties left.
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keesan
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response 47 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:23 UTC 2000 |
From a translation agency, the owner of which mailed this out to possibly
100 of us translators:
[names omitted]
Hi Everyone--
I've compiled this email from many that have come to me this Thursday
morning. We need to act fast and demand a re-vote in Palm County,
Florida. Below are several numbers to call and an email site where you
can demand a re-vote. If you need some reasons and facts, read on after
these important phone numbers. The numbers may be busy, and the email
is slow--hopefully because people are contacting them en masse. But
keep trying. This has to be done fast. I actually got right through to
#3 below--Brian himself! And please pass this on to all friends and
supporters!!
1. Call the US Department of Justice and demand that there is a
re-vote
in Palm Beach County, Florida due to the mass confusion of the
Butterfly
Ballot. The number is (202) 514-2000
2. Call the US Department of Justice, Voting Section and Civil Rights
Action demanding that the Butterfly Ballot in Palm Beach County,
Florida
should be looked at and voice your formal complaint and DEMAND that
there
is a re-vote. The number is (800) 253-3931 press option 4.
3. Call Brian Heffernan at the US Department of Justice who is
handling
this ALONE and demand that there is a re-vote. The number is (202)
514-4755.
4. Through this site, you can Email Florida's Division of Election
Director, Clay Roberts.
http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=9237
Thanks for your help, and may the popular vote prevail !
Karyn
More info:
20% of Buchanan's total Florida vote came from Palm Beach County; the
3,407 votes he got there were apparently way out of line with his
numbers in the rest of Florida Meanwhile in heavily Democratic Palm
Beach County, where there have been accusations that the presidential
portion of the ballot was confusing, officials announced 19,120 ballots
in the presidential race were tossed out before they were counted
because more than one candidate was picked. Only 3,783 voters made that
mistake on the U.S Senate portion of the ballot.
-----------------------
As citizens of The United States, it is our obligation not only to vote,
but to voice our opinions and DEMAND a re-vote in Palm Beach County,
Florida. PALM BEACH COUNTY WAS THE ONLY COUNTY IN THE ENTIRE STATE OF
FLORIDA TO USE THIS BUTTERFLY BALLOT. This was just stated on MSNBC.
Please look at not only your own future, but the future of your children
and your grandchildren. Please send this on to all of the people who
you know support Gore/Lieberman.
-------------------------
>From my point of view, what's needed is a public movement to demand that
Bush concede. The electoral college process has been fatally
compromised by what's happened in Florida. The "only" thing remaining
is the popular vote that Gore (oi!) won. Bush should concede and go on
vacation--perhaps to Peru.
**********************************
Hi--
Here's an addition to what I sent earlier. These email sites appear to
be easier to mail to. Send the same message of demand for a re-vote in
Palm County.
Thanks, Karyn
Palm Beach Supervisor of Elections: http://pbcelections.org/
Florida Division of Elections:
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/contact.shtml
Carole
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eeyore
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response 48 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:59 UTC 2000 |
Actually, Buchanan has publicly said that he's pretty sure that all of those
votes were not meant for him. I give him a lot of credit for that.
Heh, it was kinda fun to watch the Bush People Press Conferance....they were
stuttering over their words, and acted *really* nervous. They pointed out
that Cook County, IL, has the same type of ballot as Palm Beach. When asked
if the presidental part was the same, he stuttered, said he couldn't remember,
stuttered some more, but it eventually came out that no, it indeed was not.
Bush Players are also saying that if Gore wins, then they are going to call
into recount a few other states.
Honestly, I don't know why they do this until *ALL* of the ballots are
counted, including the mail-ins. Like the million in Cali, and the thousands
in FL.
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mdw
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response 49 of 216:
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Nov 9 22:03 UTC 2000 |
If you ask me, Buchanan came off as being more presidential than Bush.
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eeyore
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response 50 of 216:
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Nov 9 22:11 UTC 2000 |
Absolutely. The fact that he can get up and say on tv that these votes aren't
his.....that takes alot. I really respect that.
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krj
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response 51 of 216:
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Nov 9 22:26 UTC 2000 |
Buchanan has long been one of the best orators in American politics.
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aruba
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response 52 of 216:
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Nov 9 23:22 UTC 2000 |
I just can't believe this. What a ride! People are going to be talking
about this 100 years from now.
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mcnally
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response 53 of 216:
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Nov 9 23:26 UTC 2000 |
My greatest hope is that the cliffhanger suspense of this election
inspires greater numbers of voters (especially the "my vote doesn't count"
types) to participate in future elections.
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i
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response 54 of 216:
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Nov 10 01:30 UTC 2000 |
At what point will being a President of bitterly-contested legitimacy
by random fluke or judicial fiat start seeming like a bad deal to Bush
or Gore?
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jep
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response 55 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:17 UTC 2000 |
I'm sure either candidate would be *much* happier to win the election
than to lose it, whatever difficulties arise during the winner's term in
office.
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gull
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response 56 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:37 UTC 2000 |
Re #46: That's a discrepancy of something like 1,500 votes compared to the
first count. Was it really that sloppy? Or is this due to absentee ballots
continuing to come in?
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mdw
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response 57 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:48 UTC 2000 |
Supposedly, one of the differences is that in some cases, the holes
weren't completely punched out. The chaff in the way prevents the vote
from being read the first pass, but then gets pulled out through general
handling and reads when the ballot is read a 2nd time.
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polygon
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response 58 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:50 UTC 2000 |
I am shocked at how sloppy Florida's election practices appear to be.
Here in Michigan, I have been through a number of recounts, both as an
official election worker, as a campaign volunteer, and as a campaign
manager. These recounts were for offices like district judge and county
commissioner, and most of the recounted precincts used punch cards like
the ones in Florida.
In all of these recounts, there were at most one or two votes changed IN
THE ENTIRE RECOUNT. In fact, the low likelihood of changing any votes at
all, let alone enough to affect the outcome, have tended to deter
candidates (at least in Ingham County) from asking for recounts. If you
lose by as much as 40 votes, what's the point of a recount to find out --
if you're lucky -- that it was actually 39?
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polygon
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response 59 of 216:
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Nov 10 02:51 UTC 2000 |
Re 57. But we had punch cards in Michigan, and that didn't seem to
be much of a problem. Maybe they have shoddy punch cards in Florida.
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