response 33 of 122:

Dec 12 15:16 UTC 2003

Re resp:24: I agree that things need to move forward.  I think that the
"the hardware will be obsolete!" argument is a red herring, though.  No
matter how long things sit, that hardware will still be less obsolete
than what Grex is running on now, and that's all that matters.  If we'd
put off buying the hardware there wouldn't even be the *possibility* of
moving forward.

Re resp:32: You'd have to ask Marcus, I think, and I haven't seen him
posting to coop recently.  What are you afraid will happen?  Who is
likely to come along and try to enforce the license terms?  If they
haven't cared yet, why are they likely to care now?

response 37 of 122:

Dec 12 16:09 UTC 2003

My question in situations like this is always "who is getting hurt"?  If
the answer is "no one", I don't see what's immoral about it.

response 43 of 122:

Dec 12 18:35 UTC 2003

The hardware, which was supposed to be bought with OpenBSD in mind,
isn't quite OpenBSD compatible.  In particular, the Ethernet controller
isn't very well supported.  There are really two ways to proceed.  Well,
three: 0) Fix OpenBSD so the hardware is supported (not going to happen).
1) Buy other hardware that is supported.  The SCSI controller had some
problems, too, but is probably fine.  The real issue is the ethernet;
a $20 Netgear card could be plugged into the machine and the onboard
ethernet ignored and the problem would be solved.  2) Switch to another
operating system.  I've always had my doubts that OpenBSD is the way
to go for grex.  The main argument in favor of it (that it's ``more
secure'') is BS; grex would be better off on FreeBSD, which supports
all the hardware it already has.

Oh, screw it; I'll build out next grex over the next month if someone will
take care of putting it on the network, and in the pumpkin.  If Valerie
and Jan don't have the time to work on it, then it should probably be
relocated to a place where someone with more time on their hands can
get to it.

response 45 of 122:

Dec 12 18:43 UTC 2003

Thanks for the offer cross :)

response 47 of 122:

Dec 12 18:49 UTC 2003

To correct a misimpression that seems to be forming:  The OS was
installed on NextGrex months ago, and quite a bit of work was done
in terms of configuration and porting software.  The work has been
logged online, mostly in the Garage conference I think, some of it
in Coop.  What hasn't happened is *upgrading* the OS to the latest
version of OpenBSD.  There are good reasons for doing that, but it
isn't something that would hold up everything else.

Re #43: Wow Dan, that's quite an offer.  Thanks.

response 49 of 122:

Dec 12 19:31 UTC 2003

Thanks, cross!

response 51 of 122:

Dec 12 20:58 UTC 2003

I agree I was harsh, but the fact is, this project has sat for 7 months 
now.  I don't agree that anything was gained by buying the hardware a 
long time before it was to be used.  I think if the money was sitting 
in the bank, or even still in Grexer's pockets, we'd be in the same 
place right now.

I don't even agree nothing was lost by the way things have gone.  I 
don't think I'm the only disappointed person on Grex.  The treasurer 
talks of how our cash in the bank is dwindling... but look how well 
money, even for a vitally important project, is used when it's received.

New hardware will improve things a *great* deal.  At least I hope it 
will.  It will if it's ever used to run Grex.

I'll cheer when it's time.  I often have in the past.  But for now, I 
won't apologize for saying I feel let down by the staff.

response 53 of 122:

Dec 12 21:34 UTC 2003

John, TBH, NextGrex looks to me to be moving along at least as fast as
previous upgrades have.  It really feels to me like you're carping, not
because you're saying that it should go faster, but because you keep saying
it over & over & over.

Volunteer time is always a bottleneck.  Trying to run a system, including
upgrades & maintenance, on the basis of consensus rather than in a top-down
manager-to-managed structure adds to the problem.

Frankly, if I were on staff & were one of those trying to move ahead on
this, I'd be resenting the sheer time taken up reading the responses of a
few individuals who apparently have endless time and nothing of importance
(IMNAAHO) to say. Heck, I do resent it as it is, & I'm not even seeing most
of their postings, I think.  (No, you're not one of those I'm referring to;
my first paragraph above isn't meant to say that I think you're in the twit
category.  If it sounds to you like that, email me & I'll try to be clearer.)

response 55 of 122:

Dec 13 03:08 UTC 2003

re resp:53: Sorry if you don't think I should speak up.  But not sorry 
enough to shut up.  If there are X people who think I shouldn't say 
what's on my mind, then there are X people who's opinion I don't care 
about.

I think there are many who disagree with me, but I think there are 
some who agree, too -- however graceless they might think me for 
saying it as bluntly as I did.

Look, I like Grex a whole lot.  I have read the statements from the 
treasurer over the last couple of years, as Grex went from 100 
supporters and a growing bank account to 80 supporters and a shrinking 
bank account.  Why do you think that is?  I have an idea that explains 
at least part of it.  I get frustrated when I wait for the system to 
do the next thing; go to the next conference or finish entering an 
item or whatever.  So must others.

Those users who left aren't going to come back, and the next dozen who 
leave aren't coming back, and it won't be long before Grex is where M-
Net is now.  (If there are 10 supporting users on M-Net, I'm 
surprised.)  Or where the old Arbornet was before that (there were 4 
users of Arbornet when it merged with M-Net).  I don't think the 
MextGrex hardware is depreciating as quickly as is Grex itself.

I want NextGrex for myself.  I want it because I think it's cool to 
think of Grex moving onto something a little less obsolete.  It's new, 
different, and exciting.  But there *is* a bigger picture as well.

response 57 of 122:

Dec 13 13:10 UTC 2003

Dan, that's a generous offer.  Please run it by staff, soon.