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| Author |
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| 25 new of 406 responses total. |
omni
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response 325 of 406:
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Jun 28 05:22 UTC 1999 |
I forgot to add one more little detail.
<jumps back in with the sharks>
I'm also a Transgendered person. Ok, I've said it. No getting around that.
In addition to being bi, I have had feelings that I am someone else, of a
different gender. It's not because of anything I wear, or can't seem to grow,
just that my brain thinks in girl mode, and thinks I am a girl. I've done a
lot of soul searching and I always come back to the same place.
I guess it came into being when I turned 14. It wasn't as strong as it is
now. I kept it under wraps because in 1974, there was no Boy George, Elton
John still appeared to be straight and no one in Detroit talked about being
bi and transgendered. My father, though he was a stellar dad, still would not
have approved of what I was doing, and you know about my Mom and sister.
It wasn't until I was 22 that I ditched my plain white jockeys for panties.
It has been that way since 1982 right until today. I have never made any
apologies for that I am not about to start. Lately in recent years I have
become obsessed with bras, slips and all the other things. I've been thinking
about the difference between transvestism, and transgenderism; I think I come
down more on the TG side than the TV side, since wearing panties and other
things is the norm not the exception, and I get no thrill at all from wearing
lingerie. I just like it. However, labels are for dogfood, not people.
well, there it is. Thanks to lumen for giving me the courage to do this.
I don't think I ever would have if not for him. I know you'll all be
understanding about this, and thanks for that.
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keesan
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response 326 of 406:
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Jun 28 13:10 UTC 1999 |
I commend you on your courage, Jim. I know how hard this has been for you,
deciding to come out on both issues at the same time. You are breaking new
ground in this conference. Is it time for a separate item on TG and TV
issues? Or maybe on how clothing and gender interact? How would other
people feel if they were forced all their lives to wear clothing that did not
express the real them? (For instance, how would a butch woman feel about
having to wear frilly dresses and high heels? Are there gay men who would
feel really awkward in a business suit or tuxedo? Are women given a wider
choice in how they dress than are men and how has this changed over the
years?)
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brown
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response 327 of 406:
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Jun 28 16:02 UTC 1999 |
well, generally, women can wear anything and get away with it.
'frilly dresses' to 'tuxedos' jeans and a 'T' to punk-wear
guys have (socially) about half the choices
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gypsi
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response 328 of 406:
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Jun 28 17:25 UTC 1999 |
He has a point. I've even worn boxers at times because they're more
comfortable under certain clothes, but the only comment I got was, "Chicks
are cute in boxers/men's clothing." That was from my boyfriend at the time.
I knew a couple of guys who wore long, "hippie" skirts in the summer because
they are so much cooler than shorts, and they never got razzed because
everyone got so used to seeing it. Plus, it *was* a2. =)
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dpawley
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response 329 of 406:
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Jun 28 19:44 UTC 1999 |
*makes a mental note to take a trip to a2 very soon* :)
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keesan
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response 330 of 406:
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Jun 28 21:15 UTC 1999 |
One guy used to wear kilts to contra dances.
How about a separate item on clothing, and one on transgender issues?
I will start the latter.
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lumen
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response 331 of 406:
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Jun 28 21:33 UTC 1999 |
I also agree with Bob-- guys really are socially limited in what they are
allowed to wear. Gay men will try to push the envelope, but even they
only do so in certain circumstances and environments.
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mooncat
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response 332 of 406:
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Jun 28 22:10 UTC 1999 |
(kilts aren't considered skirts though. <grins>)
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orinoco
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response 333 of 406:
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Jun 28 23:32 UTC 1999 |
I imagine the main reason that guys have "half the clothing options" is that
most styles of dresses would look terrible on a guy's body. Skirts are
different - I remember not too long ago seeing a skater-clothing company
trying to get skirts for guys to catch on, I guess on the basis that they're
like baggy jeans, only even baggier. But I can't think of a single style of
dress that would look decent on someone with no hips and no breasts.
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brighn
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response 334 of 406:
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Jun 29 04:58 UTC 1999 |
I'm an online transvestite.
I have a female personthat can only really be expressed in fantasy and text,
because her body type is so different than mine.
(female persona, that is)
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keesan
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response 335 of 406:
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Jun 29 18:29 UTC 1999 |
Why is your physical body so important to how you can express yourself?
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jazz
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response 336 of 406:
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Jun 29 20:16 UTC 1999 |
It's not just the styles of clothing that would look good on one gender
or another, it's also the fabrics, and patterns, and even the amount of
variation from the basic type of clothes. I've often bemoaned that men's
clothing tends to be far too dull for my tastes. That doesn't mean that I've
any desire to wear women's clothing, merely to expand the fabrics, colors,
patterns, and selection of men's.
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orinoco
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response 337 of 406:
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Jun 29 20:55 UTC 1999 |
Okay, that much is true; I've often had the same complaint.
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lumen
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response 338 of 406:
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Jun 29 21:09 UTC 1999 |
That's just another facet of the dilemma. More often than not, men's
clothing tends to remain in conservative colors-- the only noteable
exception is the necktie; you may have noticed that much splashier
combinations of colors have been accepted for business and church wear.
I think the main thing is that society generally discourages men from
enjoying fashion-- clothes are generally meant to be functional, and if
it is fashionable, it is more to create a particular professional image.
Clothing is more serious or suitable than fun.
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mooncat
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response 339 of 406:
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Jun 30 05:37 UTC 1999 |
I think the physical body is important in how you can express yourself
because it's honestly the first thing people see. Your clothing can
make a statement about who you are. If you're going to a job interview
you may find it helpful to 'dress the part,' you wouldn't want to go to a
high class office building and wear torn jeans and a t-shirt. <shrugs>
If you want attention you can wear 'flashy' clothes, or tight-fitting ones
or low-cut ones. Whether you really like it or not, or personally care
about it, other people will attribute things about you (initially at least)
based on what you wear.
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brown
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response 340 of 406:
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Jun 30 15:45 UTC 1999 |
<bob mumbles somehting about needing a new wardrobe tehn wanders off>
p.s. for sarah, all the chicago-visitning A2'ers i know have skirts
haven't got me in one, yet... we'll see
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bookworm
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response 341 of 406:
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Jun 30 18:26 UTC 1999 |
Congrats, Jim. Sorry, I'm so late, but I've been too busy to be able to
think.
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jazz
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response 342 of 406:
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Jun 30 23:00 UTC 1999 |
Right, your physical first impression is a factor of how you dress and
how well you're built to wear what you're wearing, along with how you hold
yourself and move ...
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omni
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response 343 of 406:
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Jul 1 06:02 UTC 1999 |
I'm still miles from going out "dressed". In fact, I'd have a hard time
passing for female. It'd be like Orson Welles trying to pass as Twiggy. That
dog just don't hunt, and I'm cool with it. However, I can still wear
nightgowns to bed, a bra and a pair of panties under what looks like male
clothes but are actually womens. I'm very comfortable with that. One day, I
would like to have a dress just for around the house, or maybe a suit of some
kind. Kiwanis is an excellent place to find these things since I really don't
want to put any money into it. I would like to have a knee length skirt, as
well.
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keesan
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response 344 of 406:
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Jul 1 21:56 UTC 1999 |
Obviously you are not wearing things in order to affect how other people treat
you, but to make yourself feel right. Would you want to try explaining how
men's and women's clothing affects how you feel about yourself? I expect
almost everyone cares about what they are wearing even when nobody else is
looking at them.
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omni
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response 345 of 406:
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Jul 3 05:21 UTC 1999 |
I wear clothes for comfort. I have not worn a suit in at least 20 yrs,
at my Dad's funeral. When I got home, the suit went into the closet, and was
never heard from again. Since then I've been wearing jeans and t-shirts almost
exclusivly. I've also been spending some time in sweats. I used to love jeans.
I just need to buy a few pairs.
I don't know what prevents me from wanting a suit. Maybe it's the sight
of Dad lying there in his casket with clean fingernails and well groomed.
Maybe I'm rejecting that image. I don't know. I never saw my Dad act
comfortable in a suit, and as soon as the event that required that suit was
over, off it would come. I don't think my dad ever had these feelings, but
I sure did.
The feelings were strongest when my sister got to do girl things, and I
didn't. I was left to go play with the dogs, or my non-existant friends. My
childhood was a hell, and so are dealing with these feelings. At least I'm
not alone here.
I always wanted to wear a skirt and pantyhose, or wear a nice jacket with
padded shoulders with a pair of nice designer jeans, that is, over my standard
issue bra and panties.
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gypsi
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response 346 of 406:
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Jul 3 09:01 UTC 1999 |
Actually, it is quite acceptable for a guy to wear a nice jacket over jeans
with a t-shirt. It's dressy without being dressed up. A lot of people do
that when going out for the evening.
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jazz
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response 347 of 406:
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Jul 3 11:21 UTC 1999 |
It's surprisingly cheap to do, too, if you're willing to shop at Value
Village for sport jackets from the sorts of people who neverwear them.
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keesan
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response 348 of 406:
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Jul 3 14:47 UTC 1999 |
Jdeigert refuses to wear a suit, he does not own one and will not go to
anything that requires one. He wore a tie once in 15 years, when required
by the chorus. His brother handpaint it, in fancy script down the front,
mirror image. It read BULLSHIT (nobody noticed, the script was that fancy).
I was forced to wear panty hose to weddings when I was little and have not
worn any since. I was also required to wear skirts to school for 13 years
in all weather. I wish people would not dictate what other people had to
wear.
Omni, other than suits, can you think of any clothing that is now
restricted only to men, and if so, how would you feel about wearing it?
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omni
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response 349 of 406:
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Jul 5 06:51 UTC 1999 |
Tuxedos come to mind, and you wouldn't catch me in one in a hundred years.
No sir. I am one of those people who is happy in a t-shirt, and jeans and
little else. I never liked dressing up (that is in male clothes.)
When I was in military school, I had a uniform to wear, and I really hated
it. I had to wear it home, and when I was traveling on Greyhound to Monroe
and back.
Maybe all this is coming from me wanting to distance myself from my
childhood as much as possible. In any case, I'm having fun with what I'm doing
and as long as I'm breaking any laws, who really cares what I wear?
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