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| Author |
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| 25 new of 560 responses total. |
flem
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response 325 of 560:
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Nov 4 16:27 UTC 2003 |
You're missing the point, Sindi. The problem here is that Rane is not
wrong, ever. If Rane is wrong, see previous sentence.
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rcurl
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response 326 of 560:
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Nov 4 20:10 UTC 2003 |
You guys have been missing the point. And now why the personal attacks? I
have not claimed that Sindi is wrong that Godunov is the most common
transliteration of the name into English - only that many have used
Gudenov for legitimate purposes (forget the joking uses) and it cannot be
rigidly claimed to be always a "mistake" because it varies from the
dominant usage.
Sindi has quoted from an encyclopedia to substantiate the dominant
transliteration. I have pointed out legitimate alternative
transliterations from the literature. Here are a couple more:
Godunoff - from Encyclopedia Americana.
Goudounow - from The Victrola Book of the Opera
I could probably get lots more by searching in other languages using the
Latin characters. For example
Gudonov - http://www.akkc.dk/showlistrecord.asp?id=45&recordid45=193
and of course
Gudenov - http://www.crms.supanet.com/nov6pl.htm
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scott
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response 327 of 560:
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Nov 4 20:35 UTC 2003 |
Borrowed a sander and got the base for my office chair sanded down - tomorrow
I can glue it back together!
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keesan
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response 328 of 560:
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Nov 4 20:56 UTC 2003 |
Rane's last three spellings are NOT transliterations. You cannot
transliterate two different characters to ou (first one) or to o (second one,
where the two vowels seem to have been transposed). Godunoff is a
transliteration of the sort which also attempts to indicate the pronunciation
(but the first vowel is actually not pronounced that way). Gudenov seems to
be a misspelling of Gudonov which was transposed. Transliteration follows
a set of rules mapping one character (or group of characters) to another.
You can map one character to tsch, but you cannot map both o and u to the same
result.
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tod
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response 329 of 560:
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Nov 4 23:46 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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scott
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response 330 of 560:
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Nov 5 03:59 UTC 2003 |
The UMS advertising says "Boris Godunov".
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rcurl
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response 331 of 560:
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Nov 5 06:08 UTC 2003 |
But you *can*, Sindi. I understand that this agency or that might set
standards for transliteration, and it is also fine that you elect (or are
required) to follow one (or more - I presume that if another agency had a
different set, you would follow that). This is the same as standards for,
for example, publication in journals, where every journal sets its own
standards.
Some languages are, by the way, rich in diphthongs, and to create a
resemblence of the transliterated word to the original, such diphthongs
would naturally be used.
Here is a definition of transliteration from
http://www.ngi.be/NL/glossary/glossang-tz.htm
"A method of names conversion between different alphabetic scripts and
syllabic scripts, in which each character or di-, tri- and tetragraph of
the source script is represented in the target script in principle by one
character or di-, tri- or tetragraph, or a dia-critic, or a combination of
these. Translit-er-ation, as distinct from transcrip-tion, aims at (but
does not neces-sarily achieve) complete revers-ibil-ity, and must be
accompanied by a translit-era-tion key. (b) A result of this process.
Examples (with English exonyms in parentheses): _______ al-Q_hirah
(Cairo); ___________ Vladivostok; ____ efa (Haifa); # Adis Abeba (Addis
Abbeba)."
Notice that single and multiple character diphthongs can be properly
transliterated into single or multiple characters.
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remmers
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response 332 of 560:
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Nov 5 13:34 UTC 2003 |
IHB people are cluttering up the Happy item with non-IHB responses,
and I *love* clutter!
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edina
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response 333 of 560:
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Nov 5 14:24 UTC 2003 |
IHB we got the ceramic tile off the wall, most of the linoleum up and the icky
bathroom cleaned at my girlfriend's new house last night.
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keesan
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response 334 of 560:
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Nov 5 15:47 UTC 2003 |
Glad to see that Rane's definition of transliteration is a correct one.
According to this definition it has to be reversible, which Goudounoff is not
(you can't make one letter out of the first 'ou' and a different one out of
the second 'o'). Nor is Gudonov reversible - the second two vowels in the
original are different (u and o. Nor can you transcribe one letter to two
different letters (as you would need to do to come up with Gudenov, where the
first and last vowel are not the same, tho they are in the Russian).
If you transliterated all the o's to u's and vice versa, it would be a
transliteration - for instance Gudonuv - and could be reversed..
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rcurl
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response 335 of 560:
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Nov 5 17:05 UTC 2003 |
The definition says "aims at" reversibility. It also specifies that a "key"
should be provided for transliterations. There is more than one "key".
Why John, isn't all this making you Happy Happy Joy Joy? It seems to work
for some of us.
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keesan
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response 336 of 560:
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Nov 5 21:51 UTC 2003 |
I dare you to write a key that produces two different results from the same
original letter or the same result from two different original letters, which
you would need to do to get Gudonov or Goudounoff. Godunov, Godounov, Godunof,
Godunoff, are transliterations because you can reconstruct the original.
Well, maybe not Godunof, since Russian does have both v and f.
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mcnally
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response 337 of 560:
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Nov 5 22:31 UTC 2003 |
OK, I think we all have a fairly good idea now what happens when the
irresistably persistent force meets the immovable ego, so can we just
let the subject drop?
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tod
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response 338 of 560:
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Nov 5 22:37 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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remmers
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response 339 of 560:
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Nov 5 22:56 UTC 2003 |
Good enuff for me.
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goose
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response 340 of 560:
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Nov 6 03:39 UTC 2003 |
RE#337 -- I can't wait for the sequel.
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bhoward
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response 341 of 560:
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Nov 7 00:24 UTC 2003 |
(shifting gears in a radical effort to actually post something related
to the topic of this item...)
I'm just about as happy as happy can be because I just received the
results from my midterm late last night (by email).
Somehow, on this test that I turned in thinking (at best) I had earned
something in the range of an 80% I managed to score 96%.
Whoohoo!
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gelinas
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response 342 of 560:
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Nov 7 00:26 UTC 2003 |
Cool!
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keesan
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response 343 of 560:
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Nov 7 03:04 UTC 2003 |
I got back some more good blood test results, similar to last time.
Only four more blood tests (that I know of) and three more IVs this year.
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michaela
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response 344 of 560:
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Nov 7 09:00 UTC 2003 |
IHB my boyfriend will be here in twelve hours.
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remmers
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response 345 of 560:
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Nov 7 10:41 UTC 2003 |
Re #341: You're a student again, Bruce?
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bhoward
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response 346 of 560:
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Nov 7 12:50 UTC 2003 |
Never really stopped...academia is a hard habit to kick once hooked :-)
It's just that this time I've sorted out the paperwork for a formal grade.
I'm taking Hawaiian 101 at the University of Hawai`i at Hilo through
their distance learning program.
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goose
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response 347 of 560:
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Nov 7 13:57 UTC 2003 |
I'll be in Hawaii in January, we should have a GOG there.
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edina
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response 348 of 560:
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Nov 7 14:00 UTC 2003 |
IHB it looks like I'm moving to Baltimore!! My commute will be a bit stiffer,
but I love Baltimore and I'll be saving some $$.
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keesan
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response 349 of 560:
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Nov 7 19:28 UTC 2003 |
I am happy that Jim finally got up the courage to unpack his winter clothing
We found at least 20 turtleneck shirts, about the same number of warm
longsleeve woven shirts, ditto for other longsleeve shirts, but we cannot find
his long underwear. Tonight will be the first frost. He has been wearing
the same flannel shirt since August, having forgotten where exactly he put
the other things when I was not around. In the process we got rid of one
ripped pair of jeans (I declined to fix the crotch since they were also
painty, ripped elsewhere, and a size too big, and you can replace them for
a dollar at any rummage sale with something that fits), two pairs of long
underwear worn out to the point that the holes are about 50%, a shredded
t-shirt, another t-shirt with one sleeve missing from the elbow down, a
sweater that I would have kept mending except Jim says it makes him itch just
to be near it.... He had to see everything in one place to realize he has
excess. Computers are next. Why keep a P120 when people are giving us P500s.
Does anyone need any cotton rags?
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