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Grex > Coop9 > #55: Motion: To allow unregistered reading of all conferences | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 367 responses total. |
srw
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response 320 of 367:
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Mar 15 21:50 UTC 1997 |
I'm glad that this won't be yet another contentious debate. I did not mean
to put words in your mouth, Mary. I apologize.
Like I said, I haven't really decided what to do. I am pleased that we can put
anonymous reading up, but I am mostly tempted to wait a while, like until
cmcgee's propoosition is voted on. I won't want to delay indefinitely, though.
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valerie
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response 321 of 367:
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Mar 16 04:44 UTC 1997 |
This response has been erased.
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jenna
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response 322 of 367:
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Mar 17 05:49 UTC 1997 |
maybe anonymous is never what bothered people
about id-less reading. i bet THAT never occured to anyone.
i think it would be a good idea to wait. curteous, etc.
Mary> I think your post about M-net sums up my current feelings about
Grex. Spiraling doward towards M-Net. Thank you. I could have said
it myself, but not so eloquently, factually.
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mary
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response 323 of 367:
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Mar 23 00:02 UTC 1997 |
I think there needs to be a plan on where we are going with this issue.
I'd suggest that the policy which was voted on (this item) be put into
effect as soon as either Jan or Steve can make the necessary changes to
Backtalk.
Jan, what was the estimate you gave today on how soon you could have this
done?
Meanwhile, I'd suggest the Board do one of two things. The Board could
decide to make Jan's unreadable-to-the-unregistered utility available as
as soon as the program is written. Or, if there is a strong feeling this
utility needs to be voted on by the membership, then someone who feels
that way needs to propose such a vote.
This issue needs to be resolved.
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janc
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response 324 of 367:
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Apr 6 02:34 UTC 1997 |
I expect that I'll once again have a little free time in the next few weeks.
I can turn on anonymous reading by, say, next weekend. It was voted for, and
we should do it.
The filters might take more time.
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mary
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response 325 of 367:
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Apr 6 13:04 UTC 1997 |
I can't imagine what's been keeping you busy. ;-)
Thanks, Jan.
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aruba
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response 326 of 367:
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Apr 19 18:52 UTC 1997 |
I feel obliged to mention that in the last couple of weeks there have been
3 people who told me specifically that they were not renewing their Grex
memberships specifically because this proposal passed. (robh is not one of
them, by the way, in case you were wondering.) I guess that's to be expected
with an issue as devisive as this one turned out to be. We're at 97 members
right now.
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aruba
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response 327 of 367:
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Apr 19 18:54 UTC 1997 |
I said that a little more "specifically" than I had intended. :)
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mary
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response 328 of 367:
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Apr 19 20:57 UTC 1997 |
I expect there will be a few more who won't continue to
support Grex financially in protest of this decision.
That's to be expected. Some folks find it easier to
support a club than a wide-open community access system.
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nako
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response 329 of 367:
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Apr 20 01:53 UTC 1997 |
I will be the first person to admit that I am among the three that Mark
mentions as not renewing as a result of this motion. I hadn't planned on
saying anything; however, I do take offense to the tone that Mary uses in
her response. It is this that compels me to write.
The vote passing was not the absolute reason for my decision - rather, it
was the seven to ten minutes I waited on several occasions this week to
have my pine inbox opened. It was as a result of the numerous times
that I've waited over an hour to dial-in, attack dialing the whole time.
To be honest, I just don't feel that grex is currently a stable enough
system for me to use right now - and I just can't support a system that I
have difficulty using, let alone even accessing. I know that
steps are being taken to increase bandwidth and so on, and that's fine.
But I just thought it was absolutely ludicrous that people were even
suggesting adding to Grex's load before the bandwidth increase was finally
approved. The vote was not my absolute reason for my decision - but more
the proverbial piece of straw that broke the camel's back.
I never had a problem with the concept of unregistered reading - and I
still don't. It's consistent with what Grex wants to be - an open
community to all. I don't think that Grex should be a limited club, as
Mary implies that the opposition felt. (That alone shows how much
some people cared about my concerns during the voting process.) I just
can no longer support a system that cannot find what I
feel to be a responsible way to support itself, or its supporters.
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mary
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response 330 of 367:
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Apr 20 03:31 UTC 1997 |
And some folks find it easier to support a system that actually
supplies a reasonable level of speed and dependability. ;-)
I'm sorry you won't be continuing to donate, Michael. Really.
Grex needs a little bit from a lot of folks if it is going
to be able to continue to keep dues low and find a wide
base of support.
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tsty
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response 331 of 367:
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Apr 20 06:46 UTC 1997 |
get the little bit before drowning the support base then, as my broken
record plays again .... and *not* without audience it seems.
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e4808mc
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response 332 of 367:
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Apr 20 15:21 UTC 1997 |
nako, the pine problem was random, some accounts experienced it and some
didn't. Ask Valerie for technical details, but "finger bombing" was the word
she used to explain it to me.
AS far as finding a responsible way to support itself, or its supporters, I
think Grex is doing the best it can, and needs continued support from those
of us who believe in its principles of open access. The unregistered reading
will not affect how busy the dial-in lines are, and those of us who use
dial-ins are a *major* expense to the system, what with phone lines, and
modems and so on. If you want to see a less busy access with dial ins, pledge
to pay the phone bill for one line for one year!
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tsty
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response 333 of 367:
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Apr 20 18:03 UTC 1997 |
delay in starting/opening any process is in no way a function of busy
or not-busy dialins. it is much closer to the total accumulation of
used ports regardless of the connection method.
and, naturally, the accumulation of total processses with regard to
the system resources demanded per process - total system load.
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rcurl
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response 334 of 367:
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Apr 20 20:29 UTC 1997 |
Re #329: nako's decision to not support the system because it isn't fast
enough for him - contributes to the system not being fast enough for him.
Only with support can the system speed and reliability be increased.
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pfv
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response 335 of 367:
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Apr 20 22:04 UTC 1997 |
Untrue..
It also depends on the NUMBER of ports opened, what can be run,
and whom.
contributes? yeah, sorry - not symptomatic, though
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scott
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response 336 of 367:
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Apr 20 22:45 UTC 1997 |
Since the unregistered reading will be (as presently planned) over the Web,
modem or pty availability is not an issue. System load is, though.
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jenna
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response 337 of 367:
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Apr 21 00:56 UTC 1997 |
I'd cancel my membership, but I didn't pay for it. You could send the
anonymous donor their money back, though... then again, that might be rough.
Oh well. I think pissing the people you DO have off isn't going to
get you ONE iota more money, or a NICER system.
I think it's going to get your a SHITTY reputation on other BBS's
and by word of mouth. I CERTAINLY don't refer people here anymore.
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rcurl
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response 338 of 367:
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Apr 21 05:25 UTC 1997 |
I just cannot understand that. The most "grexian" thing to do is increase
access. As far as membership goes - it sounds like you make it depend on
whether you win or lose a vote. That's not my basis for joining a good
cause. I find all the grumbling hollow. I still refer people here, as it
is the most unique institution on the internet. Nothing has been done to give
Grex a poor reputation. On the contrary, this should increase its good
reputation.
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nako
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response 339 of 367:
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Apr 21 05:41 UTC 1997 |
Aha - criticism for making a personal decision. Something that I would
have never expected from a community as open-minded as this one purports
itself to be. (For the humor-impared: yes, that was sarcasm.)
#332 - If pine's problems were old news, as you had put it - it's the
first I'd ever heard of it. I've talked about the problems I've had with
pine for the past couple of months in my responses to this issue - it's
rather unfortunate that it came until now before anyone said anything my
way about it.
#332, #333, #335, #336 - I acknowledge that the number of dial-ins and
system load are related indirectly, at best. I merely used it as an
example of *my* dissatisfaction with Grex. It all ties in to the problem
I have with Grex being more concerned with attracting new users than it is
trying to be able to provide a system stable enough to support the new
users.
#334 - Rane, I guess you didn't understand what I've been saying for the
past several months. I'm choosing not to renew, because I don't like the
fact that the considerations of adding to system load were made before
any positive changes were made to the impact upon that system load. It
doesn't matter if my $6 would make the system that much better in the
future - because I don't feel my $6 is making a difference right now.
At this point, I don't feel that my $6 per month is contributing to the
system in a way which I feel would be beneficial to the system as a whole.
And I don't think that waiting ten minutes just to read my mail, while
the rest of grex makes plans to open it up even more, is beneficial to
*me* right now.
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nako
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response 340 of 367:
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Apr 21 06:06 UTC 1997 |
Rane wrote:
> I just cannot understand that. The most "grexian" thing to do is
> increase access.
I won't argue this - I never have argued this. But everything has its
price, as does this measure. Increased access to the conference will
either cost money (in upgrading the system to meet the demand) or time
wasted (in waiting to actually access the features of that system).
You seem to be in favor of increased access at all costs - without
considering the costs that may be incurred, or the opinions and feelings
of those who may be opposed to it.
> As far as membership goes - it sounds like you make it depend on
> whether you win or lose a vote. That's not my basis for joining a good
> cause.
If people feel so strongly about this cause that they're willing to leave
in protest, Rane - let them do it. Don't try and tell people that their
feelings or opinions don't matter.
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tsty
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response 341 of 367:
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Apr 21 08:45 UTC 1997 |
the IC hasn;'t said much, yet
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cmcgee
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response 342 of 367:
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Apr 21 15:58 UTC 1997 |
Some of us are willing to live with the slowness of Grex, some aren't. If
a member of a community decides to leave that community, people shouldn't
criticise his/her decision as rane did. Wish him well, tell him he's welcome
back if he ever wants to rejoin us, and then get on with the community.
There is no need to discuss/argue about whether his feelings about Grex are
right or wrong, logical or illogical. The scientific fact is: That is how
he feels. We are a voluntary organization, and when people don't want to
belong any more, they can quit. No debate.
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remmers
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response 343 of 367:
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Apr 21 16:35 UTC 1997 |
Oh gack, now we're arguing about arguing.
Michael stated his views on certain issues, Rane stated his.
They disagree. I view this kind of open airing of differences
to be healthy.
Telling people to shut up because "it's wrong to criticize" I
find to be not so healthy.
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remmers
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response 344 of 367:
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Apr 21 16:35 UTC 1997 |
(Not that I'm telling anybody to shut up, of course. :)
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