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| Author |
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| 25 new of 57 responses total. |
janc
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response 30 of 57:
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Jan 2 18:48 UTC 2001 |
I think this is only about 2% likely to happen. If I get any hint from them
that this is more than a hypothetical scenario, then I agree that we need to
broaden the discussion. Till then, not really.
I don't get Eric's point. Suppose some users showed up at our door asked for
some conferences in Co-op, got them, and proceeded to use them. Would we be
worried that they were competing for resources with Grex? No. We'd be
delighted that a group of people were putting Grex's resources to exactly the
use the were intended for.
Or suppose Eminds comes here and use up disk space and bandwidth with their
conferences, but donate little or no money to Grex. Again, so what? We've
already got 20,000 email users using much more bandwidth and connectivity than
40 or 50 EMinds users would, and donating virtually no money. We're a
charitable organization. This is what we do. And conferencing is more
strongly in line with our mission than Email is.
The only really scarce resource that EMinds might compete for is staff time,
mainly mine, since most of what they'd need would be conference web interface
customization, and archival discussion importation, and that would be my
ballywhack mostly. But the allocation of my time is for me to decide, not
for Grex to decide.
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jep
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response 31 of 57:
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Jan 2 21:59 UTC 2001 |
What I see is a further drain on Grex's most limited resource, Internet
bandwidth. It's nice to offer them free space, but it's not much less
nice to ask them to integrate with Grex and become part of the existing
community.
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carson
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response 32 of 57:
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Jan 2 22:51 UTC 2001 |
resp:30
(I think what Eric is getting at is if the EMinds people *do* donate money,
and in large[r] numbers. certainly a perplexing conundrum of possibilities.)
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gull
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response 33 of 57:
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Jan 3 01:49 UTC 2001 |
I think someone was talking about giving them "seperate governance," though.
Wouldn't that lead to conflicts with the Grex board? The idea of having an
ISP sort of relationship worries me, too...we don't want to get in a
situation where we're legally obligated to do things we might not have the
resources to do.
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other
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response 34 of 57:
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Jan 3 02:21 UTC 2001 |
Hi Eric
I am sorry to say that Webb is not allowing any new account creation at
this time. You are free to read the goings on but can not post without an
account. The best topic to keep tabs on that is called "The History of
Electric Minds" and it is located in the Commons discussion area.
At this time it looks like we have no need of a new home as our previous
owner has made plans to create a new home for us after Webb.net closes
down in February. At that time our membership doors will be open again.
In the meantime I am fully qualified as community host to receive and
convey any input or offers you may want to make via email. I have all
ready spoken with Jan about the grex platform a bit and have his contact
info in my files as well.
At this time I do not think we will be looking for a new home but your
offer is certainly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Harry Pike
Community Host/Host Manager
Electric Minds
http://www.minds.com
[I could not find the way to even read their conferences without signing
in.]
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janc
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response 35 of 57:
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Jan 3 05:56 UTC 2001 |
I can't seem to get in to post either. After I log in, it hangs a long time,
then I get some sort of Microsoft error message.
Harry Pike seems to be the guy in charge, and as you can see, he's not wild
about the Grex option, so I think this is unlikely to bear any fruit.
Personally I have a hard time imagining a better deal for them long-term than
Grex, but different strokes....
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dpc
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response 36 of 57:
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Jan 3 15:11 UTC 2001 |
I like the accommodating these folks if the need should arise.
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richard
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response 37 of 57:
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Jan 10 02:40 UTC 2001 |
well if that doesnt work, the same idea could be applied if mnet goes under
this year..grex could host or offer to host mnet's conferences
keep the place alive, sorta
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keesan
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response 38 of 57:
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Jan 10 03:13 UTC 2001 |
Were you alive last summer, Richard? Does grex get a choice?
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janc
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response 39 of 57:
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Jan 20 06:50 UTC 2001 |
Small update: Eminds is going to buy their own server, and write their
own conferencing software.
However their current home vanishes at the end of the month, and they
think they might be off line for a month. I've suggested that Grex
might be able to host them on a temporary basis, while they build their
new digs. In this scenario, I'd be thinking of a separate installation
of Backtalk, with it's own login space and conferences completely
isolated from Grex. If you didn't look in the browser's URL box,
there'd be no way to tell you were on Grex.
I'd be surprised if they were interested in this, but in case they are
I'm wondering if anyone would feel this would be inappropriate.
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mary
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response 40 of 57:
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Jan 20 13:51 UTC 2001 |
In the first scenario the Eminds folks were going to be plopped
into our world, in terms of policies. In this new proposal we'd
be essentially allowing them use of our system with their rules
for their system. I guess I'd just want to make sure that
their "rules" abide by our standards. Do they censor text for
content? Are all comers welcome? Do paying members get better
treatment than non-paying members?
I guess I'd like to know a little bit about Eminds before
endorsing their using our site in the way now being proposed.
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albaugh
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response 41 of 57:
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Jan 20 17:36 UTC 2001 |
My first reaction is that I wouldn't be in favor of a separate group not
interested in grex in the least, just borrowing some of grex's hardware.
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gull
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response 42 of 57:
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Jan 20 19:47 UTC 2001 |
Yeah, me either. How would this benefit the Grex community? They'd
basically be freeloading off our hardware, while maintaining their own
seperate enclave.
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keesan
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response 43 of 57:
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Jan 20 20:33 UTC 2001 |
Would it be simpler just to offer them a conference of their own in which to
talk about how to rebuild their system? That way grexers could also be part
of things.
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eeyore
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response 44 of 57:
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Jan 21 08:05 UTC 2001 |
Bascially, since it would be a very short-term thing, I have no issues with
them borrowing our stuff to stay alive for a month or so. I really don't
think, though, that we need to set up a ton of rules and regulations, really,
since it's not permenant.
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janc
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response 45 of 57:
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Jan 21 16:41 UTC 2001 |
That was my feeling. It's another non-profit, public access
conferencing system, full of nice people, in slightly desparate
straights. We could host them for a month just because it's a civil
thing to do, not because it benefits up, and we could do it without
trying to force them into turning into "Grex II" by working according to
our rules or with our input. The resources needed would be
inconsequential to Grex. We'd never know they were there.
As it happens, they still aren't interested. They have a single closed
conference on Utne that they'd rather use as a lifeboat. I think we
could have offered a better option, but they have to make their own
decisions their own way.
So I think we can now definitively say, nothing is going to happen.
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mary
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response 46 of 57:
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Jan 21 21:43 UTC 2001 |
I don't really think anyone was stipulating they be "Grex II" before we'd
help out. What I was suggesting is we get to know a little more about
their system and their way of doing things before we offered to sponsor
them. I would hope the answers would have left the membership feeling
good about voting to help the out.
I'm pleased to hear they have a plan. But I'd still be interested
in logging in to eminds and seeing for myself what their system is
all about. Are they open at this point?
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slynne
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response 47 of 57:
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Jan 21 22:13 UTC 2001 |
So if Mnet gets closer to dying are you going to invite Mnetters over
here? *snort* Not that it matters.
Actually, I think that inviting eminds here is really nice. What do you
mean about checking our their way of doing things, mary?
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gull
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response 48 of 57:
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Jan 22 02:19 UTC 2001 |
Actually, that's a good question.
If mnet died, would we offer to create an entire seperate conferencing
system so mnetters could have their conferences without having to deal
with us? If not, why are we offering to do it for eminds?
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spooked
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response 49 of 57:
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Jan 22 02:44 UTC 2001 |
'cause emind'ers haven't tried to spoil our confs?
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mary
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response 50 of 57:
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Jan 22 03:26 UTC 2001 |
What I meant is getting to know something of their community, their goals,
how they handle some of the same situations we've wrestled with, like
censorship and keeping the doors wide open even when you'd rather make it
a closed club, for a while at least. I'd like to hear what it is brought
them to the point they are at so maybe we could learn something of what
tends to not work so well.
If we invite them in, even under the umbrella of a totally separate and
distinct system, Cyberspace Communications will be their sponsor. I just
think it would be a responsible thing to do to find out a little about
their community and system. I wouldn't tend to discriminate based on
whether a worthwhile organization is non-profit or not - heck, Grex was a
worthy cause long before the paperwork said we were. And although Jan is
no doubt correct when he says they are good people, honestly, I'd not let
that stand in the way of helping out either, at least not without knowing
more. I'm far more interested in what they value and how they get their
than by how well they are "liked".
I expect this would have gone to a membership vote and by that time we'd
have gotten to know them a bit better. It is a pity they couldn't have
become part of Grex, I was looking forward to a few new faces. But it
sounds like they had better options. I wish them well and look forward to
visiting their system when they are open for company.
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aruba
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response 51 of 57:
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Jan 22 03:29 UTC 2001 |
Just because you cant do something for *everyone* doesn't mean you shouldn't
do it for *anyone*.
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mary
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response 52 of 57:
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Jan 22 03:42 UTC 2001 |
I'll also admit I'd be likely to vote against sponsoring any system which
fosters intolerance or discrimination or believes censorship is a good
conferencing tool. Which is why I asked about those specifics. Such
systems have a right to exist, no problem, but I don't want to support
such activities, hence my vote.
I guess that means I wouldn't want to see Grex help out the
Boy Scouts by sponsoring their website either. ;-)
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janc
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response 53 of 57:
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Jan 22 05:50 UTC 2001 |
As far as I know, E-Minds has always has always accounts to be created
by anyone and used immediately. I've not heard of any users being booted
off, or any postings being censored.
The style of discussion is similar in having lots of "how was your day"
items, but very different in replacing the political types of discussions
common here with a lot of California-style neo-philosophical artistic
maunderings that I don't particularly understand. (Registers as "they're
talking about nothing!").
So far as I can tell, they don't have any legal existence - they haven't
incorporated in any form. Governance is not by on-line debate forum.
A small group of self-selected people make decisions, and everyone else
says "yeah, we trust you to do the right thing". Bizarre as all get-out,
but typical among Well-derived communities who are used to having the
practical end "taken care of" while they debate the deeper meaning
of life. They are having a fundraiser to buy their first computer.
Nobody has asked who will own this computer. If there isn't an EMinds
corporation to own it, then presumably it will be the personal property of
some individual. Is this a problem? Does anyone care? I don't know.
In the atmosphere that exists there, it seems like a rude question
to be asking. Instead they are busy trying to figure out what the
machine should be named. Phoenix? Spirit? Dragon? That's the level
of involvement in this new server project that the wider community seems
to think is appropriate for them.
Actually, digging around a bit, it does appear that there have been instances
of users being banned and postings being removed. Hard to tell exactly, but
they seem to take their host system's "terms of service" as their rule set.
Mostly the place is hard to pin down. They don't have policies.
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mary
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response 54 of 57:
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Jan 22 11:44 UTC 2001 |
Thanks for the information. The governance sounds just a bit
like M-Net under Mike. You know, the good old days. ;-)
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