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ERROR: terminated by signal 11
executing "read_text" on line 31 of abalone/unreg.bt in call to procedure "form_text" on line 186 of abalone/read.bt in call to procedure "show_text" on line 415 of abalone/read.bt
Version: Backtalk version 1.3.30
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(<TR><TD WIDTH=18% CLASS=colhead>Author</TD>\n<TD CLASS=colhead>Message</TD>\n</TR>\n)
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(Jul 31 01:05)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>I've gotten alot better at taking home a part of my meal to save for\nlater...\n\nSindi, *of course* eating at home is an option and I'm sure that most\npeople do eat at home much of the time. Though whether or not\n*cooking* may or may not be an *easy* or even a desirable of an option\nas it seems to be for you. Like for me, I do eat most of my meals at\nhome. Sometimes I'll cook--and when I do cook, I often will make\nenough for leftovers. Other times, for various and valid reasons, I\ncan't or don't cook. Instead, I'll make a peanut butter sandwich, or\nnuke a frozen item, or have a pre-made whatever out the 'fridge or\npantry.\n\nBut like so many people, I do enjoy dining out from time to time. We\nmay want to do so for various reasons--including not having to cook and\nclean up afterwards, to try new and different things, very often [most\nof the time!] I can get better tasting [and sometimes better for me]\nmeals. First off, going out to eat is/can be fun and enjoyable. \nSometimes its easier and sometimes quicker to have someone else do the\nactual preparations for the meal. And meeting other people for dinner,\ndrinks, or dessert [whatever] is a fine way to socialize and catch up\nwith one another. I'm sure there are lots of other valid reasons for\nenjoy eating away from home, too.\n\nThat said, that doesn't mean we have to like the trend of restaurants\nincreasing the portion size and/or the price of what they serve. There\nARE options in dealing with this-like, as already being\ndiscussed--taking stuff home for another meal. Splitting an entree [or\ndessert, appetizer or whatever] with someone is another option. Not\ndining out quite as often is another possibility. Or choosing less\nexpensive places to dine. \n\nBut not going out to eat/drink/whatever all of the time isn't a viable\noption for many people. \n\nEating at home all[most] of the time is fine with you, Sindi, and that's\nperfectly ok. You seem to prefer it; but that doesn't mean that\neveryone else's interests/needs have to reflect yours. And that's ok\nfor us, too. So please try not to be so 'preachy' [is that a word??]\nwhen people discuss things they enjoy doing. After all, this IS a\nconference relating to food and dining/restaurants and such definitely\nfit the bill. [And if the costs of dining out outweighs the benefits\nand/or means of being able to do other stuff, then we do cut back\nsomewhere--either in dining out less often, go someplace cheaper, or cut\n back in some other areas of one's budget.]\n\n:-\)\n</PRE>\n)
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(<PRE><a href="read?conf=cooking&item=226&rsel=28">resp:28</a> Well yeah, that sometimes happen. But what's made it less likely\nis to plan- at the time- what meal the leftovers will be for. See, my\nhubby and I have lunch together most days- but not dinner. So if we go\nout to eat over the weekend I have my leftover for dinner during the week.\n</PRE>\n)
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(Jul 31 02:25)
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(<PRE>Re: #27\nFill up on salad and breadsticks at Olive Garden, then have your whole\nentree boxed - three meals for the price of one! :\) \n\n\nI eat out some, but i generally don't drink out, even on somebody else's\ntab. Paying $4 for the kitchen's work, turning 40 cents of ingredients\ninto a pile of pancakes, sounds reasonable to me. Paying $4 for a quick\nflick of the bottle opener, on a $1 beer, does not. \n\nI'd guess that appetizers are growing for the same reasons that other\nportions are - with huge fixed costs, giving 100% more food for 50% more \nmoney is much more profitable for the restaurant. \n\nI ate out with over a dozen people Friday, at a newer local restaurant.\nNobody had appetizers, nobody ordered dessert, and still many took half\ntheir food home in a box. Not sure how that helps the restaurant...but\nwe decided to eat there, not some place else, so if both places have\nempty tables and fixed costs...\n\nI finished off my meal Friday, but i couldn't keep that up if i ate out\nvery much. Not sure what i'd do if i had to eat out more often. Learn \nto call a $4 soup and $2 side veggie a dinner? Eat an entree every 2 or \n3 meals, and near nothing the rest? Outside of family, splitting an \nentree seems seldom viable. \n</PRE>\n)
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(Jul 31 11:48)
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(<PRE>Sindi,\nResponse 25 was unusually rude. \n\nPeople on Grex have been polite to you no matter how frequently or\nstridently you've presented your viewpoint . Please offer them the same\ncourtesy. \n</PRE>\n)
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(<PRE>I do not consider response 25 at all rude. I consider 33 rude, along with\nseveral other responses you have made to me, such as attacking me for listing\n'your' height, weight and age, which were actually my own, for which you never\napologized. I try to ignore your rudeness, which is probably not intentional\nbut just how you react to things and not intended to annoy.\n\nI presume the reason restaurants are serving larger portions is that most of\ntheir customers want them, probably because the customers are larger than they\nwere. Instead of complaining online, people could ask the restaurants to\nserve smaller portions.\n</PRE>\n)
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(Jul 31 13:18)
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(<PRE>"I presume the reason restaurants are serving larger portions is that\nmost of their customers want them, probably because the customers are\nlarger than they were. Instead of complaining online, people could ask\nthe restaurants to serve smaller portions."\n\nYeah, right. That is so untrue, Sindi, that restaurants serve larger\nportions because people are larger then they used to be. [And if you\nhardly ever eat out, how would you know this?? It's your\npresumtion/bias, not the restaurant's]. As already discussed in other\nitems here in this conference, there are many reasons why a person may\nbe 'large' than eating too much. [or not exercing enough, etc]. \nYou're continually trying to place your biases onto what you think\nsociety is and should be. \n</PRE>\n)
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(Jul 31 13:47)
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(<PRE>I've noticed that Cubs AC has very large "appetizers" as well. I think\npart of what we are seeing is that it is not primarily a restaurant.\n\nWhen people order appetizers there, the food is not meant as a prelude\nto the rest of the meal. It is a snack to be consumed with drinks. \n\nAnd, it is a snack that is often shared. So their sizing and pricing\nare more for "snack-shared-by-beer-drinkers" rather than "small amount\nof food meant to whet the appetite of an individual". \n\nI frequently order an appetizer plus \(side, soup, salad, another\nappetizer\) instead of a full meal. Or, if there's creme brulee, an\nappetizer and dessert. I *always* check the dessert menu before I\norder. \n\n</PRE>\n)
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(Jul 31 20:14)
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(<PRE>Why would a restaurant serve larger portions unless they thought the\ncustomers wanted them? Denise, I am not accusing anyone of anything, but it\nis a well known statistic that the average weight of Americans has gone way\nup in the last 50 years, and people who weigh more generally eat more.\nSoda \(pop, tonic\) has also gone from 8 oz standard size bottle to 2 or 3 times\nthat. In both cases, the cost of ingredients is a small fraction of what the\nproduct is sold for, so even people who don't want all of what they buy are\nunlikely to complain, and the restaurants probably think they are making the\nmost people happy by serving larger amounts. Their overhead \(rent, utilities,\nlabor\) is the main cost of a restaurant meal. For an extra dollar or so\npeople have twice as much cooked food. And I presume most people don't mind\ngetting more than they really wanted, and are happy to either take it home\nor throw it out. But those of you who don't want to do either of those could\nask the restaurants to offer the option of smaller portions for a bit less\nmoney. Or put something on the kids' menu other than hamburgers, spaghetti,\nfried chicken and macaroni and cheese \(which I think is what the local Greek\nrestaurant offers kids - Zingerman's also offers peanut butter and jelly\).\nDoesn't Zingerman's offer two sizes of sandwich already, to adults?\n\nA quick web search reveals that one NYC restaurant 'needs to run a 22% food\ncost in order to make a 14% return', which I think means they spend about 1/5\nof their budget on the actual food. Some other place used to spend 40% on\nfood but bought some software that helped them cut it to 32%. \(This is a\ncheaper place.\) So the fancy place could double portion size while adding only\nabout 20% to the cost of a meal, and possibly bring in a lot more customers\nby doing this.\nIf McDonalds spends 1/3 on food, let's say $3 for a meal costs them $1, they\ncould sell double the portion for $4 and make about the same profit, but more\npeople might want to buy the larger portions so they would make more total\nprofit.\n</PRE>\n)
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(Jul 31 20:54)
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(<PRE>It's not that simplistic. One of the main jobs of the kitchen manager\nin a restaurant is to keep track of the food left on the plates by\ncustomers. There is software to do this, because it is a big issue in\nprofitability. Restaurants don't "think they're making people happy by\nserving larger amounts". Any restaurant that doesn't run on data is\ngoing to go broke very quickly. \n\nMost restaurants fight every day to keep food costs under 30%. It's not\neasy, and you don't do it by doubling the amount of food you buy. \n\nWhen I was running the restaurant, a large part of my time was spent\ntrying to cut expenses. Wages and equipment are fixed costs for the\nmost part, except for the $2.15/hour waitresses, which we could send\nhome at any time during their shift to cut expenses. One waitress gone\nfor a whole day saved us less than $20, so that didn't help anywhere\nnear as much as cutting the food bills. \n\nDoubling portion sizes doesn't bring in that many customers, either. \nAgain, this is based on shared industry data, not untested assumptions.\n Your web search gave you very superficial data, and your lack of\nknowledge about restaurants led you to some pretty wild conclusions.\n\n</PRE>\n)
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(Jul 31 21:08)
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(<PRE>So why do you think portions sizes are getting larger?\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 01:53)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>Why assume that most people would especially WANT larger servings all or\nmost of the time? Sure, it's one thing to have the option of having\nmore food/larger servings, but having the option of having smaller\nportions [and pricing accordingly] would be a better way to go. \nIf/when given a choice of what to get, many people will not opt for the \n'Super-Sized' meal [check any McDonald's or Burger King and you'll see\nthat many people don't get the bigger sizes].\n\nThough one thing about many people is that if a plate of food is sitting\nin front of them, they'll eat it all [or a lot of it], just because its\nthere, whether they need it to fill them up or not. The flip-side can\nalso be true for many of us. If/when served smaller servings, we may\nstop there and be satisfied and not go back for more.\n\nWhy are portion sizes getting larger, then? I need to reread some of\nthe statistics to determine how cost effective it is to serve [only]\nlarger portions [without the option of getting the older standard\namounts at these dining establishments]. My first instinct is to say\nthat they're increasing the size to increase the costs to the consumre,\nthus increasing their profitability. But this may or may not be the\nactual case.\n\n\n" And I presume most people don't mind\ngetting more than they really wanted, and are happy to either take it\nhome or throw it out. "\n\nI agree in that a lot of people don't mind having leftovers to bring\nhome for another meal. [Same thing with larger bottles of pop and\nsuch, people will often drink some of it then and save some for another\ntime... Or as I said before, they might be satisfied with a smaller\nserving size/bottle but don't have that option these days.... But to\nhave us decide that we could just throw out what we don't want? Yeah,\nsome people really don't mind doing that. But many will/do think that\nthis is very wasteful to have to do [and thus, feel they 'wasted'\nmoney]. \n\n\n" But those of you who don't want to do either of those could\nask the restaurants to offer the option of smaller portions for a bit\nless money. "\n\nMany [most?] restaurants don't have the capability to provide smaller\nportions at a reduced price--unless there ARE size-options already\nprovided on the actual menu. Menu items and prices are a 'fixed' thing\nthat can't easily be changed by the waitstaff, managers, etc [even if\nwe request them to]. Sure, they could actually bring less food than\nwhat that menu-item normally provides but they very well may not take a \ndeduction off of your bill. [Though there often is the option of not\nhaving specific side dishes that come with the main course item and\nhave those charges not included in the bill. Like when the menu says\nthat sandwiches and burgers come with an order of fries, they very well\nmay charge less for just the sandwich.] In other words, just because we\n ask for something in a place of business doesn't mean we'll be able to\nget it, regardless if we're paying for it or not.\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 02:04)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>Preparing a smaller portion doesn't save any money for the restaurant. \n\nWhat you make in food cost savings you spend in extra staff time\nre-portioning. In many cases, the items are pre-portioned, so there is\nno way to re-use the amount you don't send out to the table. In that\ncase, it actually costs you *more* to send out a smaller portion. \n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 02:10)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>And yes, Sindi, I'm aware that the average weight of people in America\nhas been rising. But eating too much isn't the only reason [and\ngranted, a lot of americans ARE eating too much. Partly their own\ndirect decision but also *because* of the trends in advertising,\ncommercialism, the media, etc. They all play a role in this.] \n\nOther things also come into play. Like with all of the 'modernization'\nof how we do things in our society. We use washers and dryers to do\nour clothes in. We use vacuums and such to clean the floors. Cooking\nappliances reduce time spent in preparing our foods and refridgeration\nallows us to make food easily in larger quantities so that we can make\nstuff to last for several days and/or to freeze for a later time, thus,\nreducing time spent in the kitchen. So we're not having to be as\nphysically active in our day-to-day chores. Yes, some people may\ndecide to still do everything the 'old- fashioned' way to get more\nexercise. but in many situations, these are not always a viable option\nwhen we have other things to do [like having to have a 2 incomes in a \nfamily to just pay the bills].\n\nOur work habits HAVE changed over time. So have our leisure activities. \nMany can and do spend much of their free time watching tv or playing\nvideo games [or, heaven forbid, spend time on the computer checking in\non grex!]. Though with a lot of this, it's the media and society\nitself that advertises so much of this type of behavior [pushing the\nfast food, larger servings, faster cars, more gadgets to make life\neasier for us. Heck, if we want to, we can even push a little button\non a remote and have the car start up and warm it up in the winter\nbefore we have to go out to drive it.\n\nIn all of this, yes, we as individuals have choices and options. But\nvery often [in varying degrees], what we want is dictated by what the\nmedia and/or society tells us what we want.\n\nSo, with the increasing size of americans [and with us as individuals],\nit certainly more than us deciding 'ok, I am going to eat too much and\nbe lazy today'.\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 02:12)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>And back to the topic of this item. Colleen, I do see your point about\nCubs AC being more of a snack and drink sort of place instead of\nprimarily a place to have a dinner. \n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 02:12)
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(<PRE>Any good suggestions for fun appetizers for these hot summer days?\n\n:-\)\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 13:24)
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(<PRE>Self prepared? I recently took some fresh raspberries and strawberries\nput them in a bowl with some light Cool Whip. Was *very* tasty, and not\na lot of calories. It had to be at least a full fruit serving too.\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 13:34)
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(<PRE>That sounds good, Anne...\n\nThere have been a number of times when I've added a little bit of\n[hershey's] chocolate syrup to a bowl of sliced up strawberries. The\nsmall amount of the chocolate doesn't add on much in the line of\ncalories but it does provide a bit more of flavor to it.\n\nSometimes when I'm really hungry before a meal is ready to be served,\nI'll have something along the line of cheese and crackers or a handful\nof nuts or something else like that.\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 14:46)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>Hmm, the Hershey's on strawberries does sound good... and we have both\nat home. ;\)\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 14:48)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>This reminds me of an attempt to help me gain weight when I was an\nunderweight pre-schooler .\n\nThe doctor had my mom feed me a bowl of ice cream half an hour before\ndinner. Some appetizer. \n\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 1 21:16)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>Ice cream, in the mind [and stomach] of a pre-schooler, would love an\nappetizer like that, I bet. But then, would you be less apt to eat\neverything served for dinner?\n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 2 22:45)
( UTC 2007)
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(<PRE>*shrug* They thought it would stimulate my appetite. I wasn't going to\ncomplain. \n</PRE>\n)
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(Aug 3 14:00)
( UTC 2007)
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