response 31 of 44:

Jul 25 19:14 UTC 2007

And this isn't just taking place in the feminine arena; it happens
elsewhere, too.  This  discussion reminds me of something that happened
to me just a few years ago [2003].   I was going through orientation for
a new job and we had some training on diversity  [and how we all should
tolerate/get along with others that are different than otherselves  in
some way or another].  Later that day, a group of us had to take a test
on a topic  that had just been taught.  Well, one of my areas of
difficulty is that I have ADD.  After  a short while when a lot of the
class was already done, the instructor asked if anyone  else was still
working on the test and how much longer would it take to get done... 
During the previous 5-10 minutes, there had been a lot of chatter going
on, including  from the teacher.  So anyway, I said that I was still
trying to work on the test but was  slowed down because of all of the
chatter/noise that was going on.  So he made a  rather rude comment
about people with ADD.  During the morning session on divirsity,  we
were told that if we felt harassed by anyone that worked with this
company, or they  said anything discriminatory, that we shouldn't let it
slide--to tell someone in the  hierarchy of the business.  So I did
mention this comment to that person that led that  morning's training..
She apparently said something to the instructor [as she should  have].
Down the road, I got a note from the instructor [who works in another
location]  apologizing, that he meant it as 'just a joke'.  Well, I
think statements like what he  made that day was NOT a joke when it
makes fun of one with some kind of problem or  issue.  Like the jokes
people used to make about black people, those weren't really  jokes at
all when they cause harm to the black race...

response 33 of 44:

Jul 25 19:58 UTC 2007

That's so true, Colleen.  Sometimes I'll call people on it, depending on
the situation it  takes place in...

response 35 of 44:

Jul 26 02:52 UTC 2007

Re: #18 & following
Tempting to wonder if dim-but-thin girls are being routed to college
(in the hope that they'll marry well before flunking out?), while dim-
but-thin boys are (correctly) routed away from college.  Or are girls
often more compliant with social expectations (to diet & study as much
as it takes to stay thin & college-tracked) than boys?

Re: #27 & following
Socially isolated all-male groups tend to develop in ways that repel
any reasonable female.  Take a bunch of socially-handicapped males
(who'll generally do better in the math/hard science/engineering part
of academia, vs. business/law/medicine), and it's bound to be worse.

I've also heard that the instructional style in math/hard science/
engineering effectively selects nerds and rejects women - it's often
"forget the forest, forget the tree, we're going to count every pore
on this one leaf with an electron microscope, and don't ask why".

Re: #28 & following
Even without the media's help, every group's worst examples get the
most notice.  Who likes or wants to be a "Christian" if that word
means "hate-spewing fundy who does hard drugs with hookers 3 times
a week"?  Probably nobody you'd want to go near. 

Re: #31 & following
"I was joking" == "I was testing the water to see how much evil I
could get away with".  It's too well documented how fast many people
become depraved if they can get away with it, and how easily most
people go along with that. 

response 37 of 44:

Jul 31 01:21 UTC 2007

I read a bit more of the book today. I'm done with the first section and
am into the section  about overcoming the fat aspect of life.  Though
the author has some viable options and  ideas, a number of them are
pretty simplistic [stuff/ideas that we would do if we could  [been
there, tried that, it didn't work] and in some of these ideas and
situations, I haven't  figured out her answers to *how* to accomplish
the things that she suggests.  Perhaps I  need to continue reading
[which I plan to] but I'm getting frustrated at times...

Again, I don't have the book right here so I'll try and mention a few
things later on that  we can discuss. Perhaps some of you have ways to
work on these issues...

response 39 of 44:

Jul 31 12:16 UTC 2007

Re: #38
My impression is that many medical conditions (and/or side-effects of
the drugs used to treat them) often shift a person's weight by more
than 30 pounds - so they probably either mix that in with the genes,
or effectively exclude people with such conditions from the study.

It would be interesting to know how much of the supposed health 
benefits of being thin are an effect of where your genetic range
is (90-120 range makes you healthier than 190-220 range?), vs.
where you are in that range.  Not very useful socially, but it 
might help against discrimination by insurance companies, etc.


Somehow, this doesn't seem like much of a discovery.  "Weight is
partly determined by behavior" and "many people adjust their 
behavior to be more like those around them"...wow, who knew?

response 41 of 44:

Aug 3 02:49 UTC 2007

Hmmm...as abstracted science, this study is pretty reasonable.
But if it really was just dutifully-confirm-the-"obvious" science,
it would only be covered in dull academic journals, not headlines
in the popular press.

I'd say it's headlines only because it makes good propoganda for 
the current War on Fat(tm).  The take-home action message looks a 
little too much like "dump all your fat friends and replace them 
with thin ones", too.  

response 43 of 44:

Aug 21 15:43 UTC 2007

I have heard about this virus theory before. It is rather interesting. 
I know that a lot of people in the fat activist community tend to latch 
onto studies like this because it gives a reason that is outside of a 
person's control for why they might be fat. Personally, I dont think it 
matters. 

I suspect that while it is possible that a virus can contribute to 
something like how the body makes and stores fat, I also suspect that 
things like genetics play a much larger role.