response 4 of 378:

Mar 3 17:57 UTC 2006

A lot of people do not fully understand the pain and grief that obesity 
brings. 

response 6 of 378:

Mar 3 18:07 UTC 2006

I'm a fatty and love smoking and struggle with both addictions.  I feel I have
full license to joke about it.  If it makes me seem shallow or whatever,
consider the topic in the first place.  I'd rather people address things head
on and use a lil humor than to bury the whoel thing like it doesn't exist.
To me, that's like saying "Ok, we're going to let the Mexicans STAY but we're
not going to give them any rights or anything." i.e. hide in the shadows and
don't muck up The Beautiful People fantasy.  Oh, the horrors of reality..quick
hand me the TV remote so I can tune out.  What's the # for the pizza joint?

response 8 of 378:

Mar 3 18:16 UTC 2006

re #5
 resp:1 I can appreciate that you have a concern for your health, tod.
 Which is why I think I should tell you that while there is some
 evidence that obesity is a risk factor for a number of diseases, there
 is no real evidence that losing weight makes a person more healthy. 
My grandma had to get both hips replaced.  Arthritis runs in the family.  I
don't really need a roadmap to see that if I'm a lil lighter then I'll have
a less difficult time as I get older.

 Naturally you are entitled to make fun of anyone you would like to make
 fun of. You can make fun of people because of their race or their
 sexual orientation or their weight or whatever else you want to make
 fun of. But some people might think less of you for being a bigot.
Losing popularity contests if something I accel at.  If there's one thing I
want to be remembered for, its that tacts are what people use to nail stuff
where they want for a nice controlled environment.  The Holocaust flew under
the radar because the average German didn't have the balls to speak their mind
(regardless of how stupid or bigoted or unpatriotic they may have sounded.)
I'm always open to being convinced otherwise on things.  I used to believe
that outwardly gay folks should not be allowed in the military but I was
convinced otherwise by folks that were willing to debate me despite my
obvious abrasively belligerent and adversarial approach.  

Back on topic here, I think being "obese" is what I'm yammering on about. 
I'm not talking about 20 or 30 pounds over but like 100 or so above..you know,
when you are having a hard time tying shoes and stuff like that.  Saying its
normal to be out of breath from tying shoes is just flat out denial.

response 10 of 378:

Mar 3 18:35 UTC 2006

Here's the question:

Do you like yourself?  Do you feel you are good to yourself?  And are those
answers formed by society or yourself?  

I am not a thin person.  If I got down to a size 12, I would look wrong.  I'm
designed to be bigger than societal norms.  That being said, I take care of
my body, I like how I look (for the most part- probably more so than the
average woman), and I try not to look to society to validate that.  

Studies on whether it's healthy or not seem stupid.  Fat people use it to
validate them being fat, thin people use them to validate being thin.  If your
doctor says, "look, you need to take some weight off because of ____", that
should be a strong compass.

response 12 of 378:

Mar 3 18:48 UTC 2006

re #9
I think what you're saying is that a person shouldn't bother to lower their
weight if they're obese cuz they'll just gain it all back.  I agree with that
sentiment if it means the person is not modifying the behavior that causes
their obesity.  Fad diets and stuff like that aren't worth it in the long run
because of what you're implying.  The part where I disagree though is that
it will be gained back irregardless.  I also disagree that a person will be
equally healthy (i.e. live longer or have less physical complications) if they
remain obese.  I think studies have proven that lovehandles predict a shorter
lifespan.

response 14 of 378:

Mar 3 19:43 UTC 2006

In rats it does. My sister wasn't working on the project, but in one of
the labs near her at UPenn they found that if rats were slightly
underfed they lived longer than the ones that were fed the 'correct'
amounts. (either this was at U-Penn or she read about it) Problem with
people is they don't want to constantly be 'slightly starving' and nor
should they.

If people just 'diet' than yes, there is a greater chance of them
rebounding. However, if they make a conscious effort to alter the way
they eat, the way they view food, and their excersize patterns- than
it's not so much a diet change as a lifestyle change. Those kind of
patterns can become ingrained and the odds of a rebound are much lower.  

I'm not the thinnest person around, and I would like to lose weight so I
can be healthier. But to me that means eating more fruits and veggies,
and working out so that I CAN run up the three flights of stairs and not
feel winded. 

response 16 of 378:

Mar 3 20:45 UTC 2006

My stepdaughter, the 15 year old with the chronic pain in her foot, was 
told by her family doctor that her cholesterol and triglycerides were 
too low.  "Don't you ever go to McDonald's?" he asked her.  Just try 
convincing a teenaged girl in America she's too skinny.

response 18 of 378:

Mar 3 20:52 UTC 2006

Thinner people are more attractive than fatter people.

response 20 of 378:

Mar 3 21:26 UTC 2006

resp:17 I honestly think that there is something wrong with our 
society. I think we are obsessed with weight. I think that has some 
negative consequences. It leads to eating disorders. It causes people 
to feel badly about themselves. It puts an entire group of people at 
the margins of our society. It wastes money as people keep spending 
money on diet programs that dont work.

 I believe that talking about issues is a way to expose people to ideas 
and to get them to think about things they might not have otherwise 
thought about. I think ultimately I would like it if I could convince 
society and I think a lot of people are starting to do that. I wouldnt 
mind getting some people on grex to think about this kind of stuff. I 
dont need to convince myself. 

On a personal level, I have to admit that I have not gone to see a 
medical doctor for a routine exam in over eight years. The reason I 
havent gone is because I often would feel like a failure because the 
doctor would tell me I needed to lose weight and then I wouldnt lose 
weight. But recently, as a result of reading a lot of fat positive 
websites and books, I have come to realization that it is wrong for 
doctors to tell patients to lose weight. I mean come on...95% of people 
who lose weight do not keep it off. Losing weight in and of itself is 
not the answer. Weight alone might not even be an indicator of health. 
Obesity is a risk factor for certain diseases, I dont doubt that. But 
so are a lot of things like a person's race or gender. You dont see 
doctors telling men to become women because women have a lower risk of 
heart disease. I think telling fat people to become thin people is 
pretty much the same thing when you consider that almost everyone who 
loses weight gains it back. 

Now a doctor certainly can tell a patient to eat a good diet and to 
exercise. That is responsible. But contrary to what a lot of people 
think, it is possible to eat a healthy diet and to exercise and to 
still be fat. 

But, of course, this isnt *really* about health anyways. It is about 
morality. At least on some level it is. 

response 22 of 378:

Mar 3 23:48 UTC 2006

Apparently not.

response 24 of 378:

Mar 4 01:47 UTC 2006

Jim was told that his cholesterol was too low (145 total) so he started eating
eggs and cheese once in a while.  160 is supposed to be ideal.  I have not
bothered measuring mine.  Changing the types of things you eat affects your
weight without trying to diet.  I weighed 20 lb more when I ate school food,
which was always greasy and had a lot of desserts.

My grandmother was obese all her life and died at about age 70 of diabetes.
Nobody else in the large family has had diabetes.  I have one neighbor,
overeight, with diabetes, who was told to lose weight and it would get better.

response 26 of 378:

Mar 4 07:34 UTC 2006

I didn't say that a doctor should tell a patient they should lose weight 
(though it is a reasonable thing for a doctor to do).  Because of your 
sensitivity to the subject of losing weight I said "Isn't it reasonable 
for a doctor to tell people....... what their most healthy weight would 
be?" Then you can decide what you will do about it (but don't blame the 
doctor if you get sick).

I don't understand the argument that doctors should not tell patients to 
lose weight because the patient will inevitably (really?) gain it back 
again. That sounds like the patient intends to gain it back again. After 
all, if one goes through the trouble of losing weight, it is less trouble 
to keep it off. 

Re #24: I am surprised that Jim's doctor thinks a cholesterol level of 145 
is too low. Mine is 135 and my doctor is delighted.