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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 58 responses total. |
scott
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response 3 of 58:
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Sep 12 00:29 UTC 2003 |
Re 2: I'd throw your own comment back at you. America is currently having
serious issues with "freedom", and the current President is most of the
problem.
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klg
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response 4 of 58:
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Sep 12 01:00 UTC 2003 |
Thank you, twenex.
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jaklumen
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response 5 of 58:
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Sep 12 07:16 UTC 2003 |
In twenex's defense (I guess): he did not exactly say America. But
freedom is not a bad idea to specify.
But again, as a centrist and Independent, I still submit this to say--
I don't exactly side with Bruce, or with Scott and Eric. You may have
found that 9/11 doesn't inspire great patrotic passion within my
breast. I'm much too iconoclastic to reduce my complex feelings to
some simple flag-waving or dogmatic tripe I hear so often lately.
Nor do I always feel the need to take the intellectual high road. I
know GW seems to really be the Republican's "boy," but at times, I
can't help but wonder if the Democrats aren't overly worried. Sue
me. I'm not left of center. Of course I'm not going to be as
alarmist. But that doesn't mean I like it, either.
Of course, politics aside, resp:2 sounded *really* stupid.
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flem
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response 6 of 58:
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Sep 12 14:55 UTC 2003 |
re #1: *applause*
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klg
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response 7 of 58:
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Sep 12 16:10 UTC 2003 |
"Freedom" means having the right to post resposes such as 1 3, & 6.
Unfortunately, there are those (a minority, to be sure) who fail - for
whatever reason - to make that connection and, therefore, lack an
appreciation of the blessings that have been bestowed upon us.
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happyboy
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response 8 of 58:
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Sep 12 16:42 UTC 2003 |
GOD BLESS YOU KLG!
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klg
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response 9 of 58:
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Sep 12 16:57 UTC 2003 |
Thank you. I believe He does, and most people thoughout this great
nations and his most wonderful world.
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happyboy
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response 10 of 58:
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Sep 12 17:00 UTC 2003 |
and god bless the ceo of this GREAT CORPORATION
GEORGE BUSH JUNIOR!!!
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other
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response 11 of 58:
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Sep 12 17:27 UTC 2003 |
I appreciate the freedom that I have to do things like post #1. And
because I appreciate it, it pisses me off when my government works to
tear down the freedoms its predecessors fought for. The America I
referred to in #1 is not the America which guarantees the rights to say
unpopular things without being treated as at best a threat and at worst a
criminal and a traitor.
This is why I honored the victims of the 11 September 2001 attacks by
sending a check to the ACLU.
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other
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response 12 of 58:
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Sep 12 17:38 UTC 2003 |
What did YOU (collective, individual, whatever) do to honor the essential
American freedoms that 9/11 were an attack upon, in commemoration of that
anniversary?
Donations to the ACLU can be mailed to:
125 Broad Street 18th Floor
New York, NY 10004-2400
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happyboy
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response 13 of 58:
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Sep 12 18:49 UTC 2003 |
awesome, eric!
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klg
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response 14 of 58:
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Sep 12 19:52 UTC 2003 |
So, how exactly has your personal freedom been torn down. Give us some
concrete, not theoretical or hypothetical, examples. (By the way, how
are you fighting for freedom &/or honoring your predecessors who did?)
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flem
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response 15 of 58:
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Sep 12 20:19 UTC 2003 |
*cough*patriot act*cough*
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other
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response 16 of 58:
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Sep 12 20:32 UTC 2003 |
Every time the congress of the United States passes, and the President of
the United States signs a law which hides the processes of the federal
justice system under a cloak of secrecy, or allows law enforcement
agencies more latitude to investigate or detain citizens of the United
States without proof or even reasonable suspicion that they have violated
criminal laws, my rights and freedoms have been torn down, threatened, or
violated. If I have to wait until *I'm* arrested or investigated before
I can claim to have had my freedoms abridged then I have waited far too
long. #14 seems to suggest that there is nothing to be learned from the
experiences and reflections of Pastor Martin Niemoller (google it).
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klg
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response 17 of 58:
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Sep 13 01:09 UTC 2003 |
Mr. flem,
Take a drink of water.
Mr. other,
In "other" words, you cannot provide a single example. Just as we
suspected. (As if that will put an end to the leftist whining.)
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other
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response 18 of 58:
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Sep 13 04:11 UTC 2003 |
I cannot provide an example, and that fact is totally irrelevant to the
issue at hand. It is a classic straw man argument.
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md
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response 19 of 58:
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Sep 13 13:04 UTC 2003 |
9/11 was a great tragedy. 3,000+ people were murdered and two huge
(albeit despised by many New Yorkers pre-9/11) buildings collapsed.
It happened to us, and no one can blame us for pausing to remember and
mourn on the anniversary
But meanwhile, many more thousands of Europeans have died because of a
heat wave which was a manifestation of a worsening global climate
change for which a plausible case can be made that we -- not George W.
Bush, not the government of the USA -- we Americans are personally
responsible. But we expect Europe to drop what it's doing every 9/11
from now on and hold solemn commemorative ceremonies and send us
messages of sympathy. Puh-leez.
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rcurl
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response 20 of 58:
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Sep 13 14:11 UTC 2003 |
You spread collective guilt too widely. For one thing, there are a significant
number of Americans that accept that global warming is a major threat to
the world and that American leaders should start doing something about it.
However a majority of Americans either don't believe or care and they have
elected leaders that feel the same way. In addition, there is a large
component of "tragedy of the commons" in this - each person in our society
generally follows the urge to enhance their own wealth and happiness, with
the consequence of ever increasing resource depletion and, perhaps most
important, ever increasing population. These factors are, of course, also
present or potential in every other nation - who generally aspire also
to increased consumption (with a modicum, here and there, of lip service
to population control, economy, and restraint).
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md
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response 21 of 58:
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Sep 13 14:34 UTC 2003 |
"there are a significant number of Americans that accept that global
warming is a major threat to the world and that American leaders
should start doing something about it."
Oh please. You really think that gets you off the hook?
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russ
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response 22 of 58:
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Sep 13 18:27 UTC 2003 |
Re #19: I understand that China is already burning 20% more coal
than the USA, and is ramping up rapidly; if there is a bogeyman
role here, Beijing seems to want to nudge the US out of it. (The
caveats of the current administration about exceptions for
"developing" economies in the Kyoto treaty now appear well-founded.)
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md
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response 23 of 58:
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Sep 13 18:36 UTC 2003 |
True. All we did was get there first.
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aruba
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response 24 of 58:
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Sep 13 19:27 UTC 2003 |
I think the US is still far in the lead when you tally up carbon dioxide
emmissions, either gross or per capita.
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rcurl
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response 25 of 58:
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Sep 13 20:20 UTC 2003 |
So, md, what are you doing to get yourself off the hook? I drive an
ordinary car, have a high efficiency furnace and keep a cool house (and wear
sweaters) - and I vote for candidates that promise to have US follow the
Kyoto agreement. What do you do?
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md
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response 26 of 58:
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Sep 13 22:19 UTC 2003 |
I understand and admit that I'm part of the problem. That's the main
difference between you and me on this issue.
As it happens, I do have a super-high-efficiency furnace and always
keep the house 60-ish in winter. But that's just because I'm by
nature both a cold-weather person and notoriously cheap, not because
of any environmental concerns. And I don't delude myself that having
a super-high-efficiency furnace somehow makes me a Friend of the Earth.
As to your voting record, you have every right to be proud of it. But
you must realize that "Even voting for the right is doing nothing for
it. It is only expressing to men feebly your desire that it should
prevail. A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance,
nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority." - Thoreau
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klg
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response 27 of 58:
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Sep 14 02:28 UTC 2003 |
Yes! We can ratify the Kyoto Agreement and for the mere price of
Billions of $$ put off the (supposed) effects of "global warming" by a
whopping two whole years!! Such a deal. (We got a bridge you might be
interested in buying, too.)
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