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Author Message
25 new of 1578 responses total.
gelinas
response 297 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 05:14 UTC 2003

Cool.  Five letters to choose from. :)
janc
response 298 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 05:23 UTC 2003

treat
janc
response 299 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 06:37 UTC 2003

I've posted notes on how I do analysis a couple times, but it's improved
a bit since the last time.  At this point I have it worked out so it
would be pretty plausible to program (interesting too, since you'd
likely want to do some recursion), but I don't really intend to.  I do
it by scribbling over a couple square inches of scrap paper, but I'll be
more formal here.

We keep three main data structures:

  NEGATIVES:  For each of the 5 positions, a list of letters that we
     know cannot be there.
  POSSIBLES:  For each of the 5 positions, a list of letters that have
     been guessed for that position, not including those in NEGATIVES.
  PATTERNS:  A list of five-letter patterns that the word must fit one
      of.  These can have ? marks in them to indicate positions that
      can be filed by any letter not in NEGATIVES or POSSIBLES for that
      position.

Suppose we have this data so far:

crash 0
felts 0
swear 0
fleat 0
grain 1
eerie 2
grasp 1

First step is to handle all the zeros buy loading them into NEGATIVES.

NEGATIVES[1] cfs
         [2] rewl
         [3] ale
         [4] sta
         [5] hsrt

Now we pick one of the other words to work on.  The order doesn't effect
the final result, but some orders are easier to do than others.  We
won't worry about it and just do them in the order given, starting with
"grain 1".

First, we knock out letters from "grain" that appear in NEGATIVES.  This
leaves "g##in 1", that is one (and only one) of "g" "i" or "n" must
appear in the word.  These letters get added to POSSIBLES.  So the word
must be "g????" or "???i?" or "????n".  So we add these three
posibilities to PATTERNS.  So we now have:

POSSIBLES[1] g
         [2]
         [3]
         [4] i
         [5] n

PATTERNS
   g????
   ???i?
   ????n

Next word is "eerie 2".  Again, we knock out the negatives, giving
"e#rie 2".  We need to merge this into our list of patterns, one pattern
at a time.  Let's start with old pattern "???i?".  The "i" is already
there, so we need one other letter from "e#rie" to ensure that there are
two matches with it.  It has to be one of "e??i?" or "??ri?" or "???ie",
so those three will be in the new pattern list.

Next we do old pattern "g????".  We need to find all ways that that can
match two letters of "e#rie".  Well, obviously the initial "e" can't be
right in this case, because we already know the initial letter is "g". 
So you can have two of "rie".  But remember that in "g????" the ? can
not be any letter in either NEGATIVE or POSSIBLES.  In particular the
fourth position cannot be an "i", because "i" is listed among the
POSSIBLES for that column.  If we allowed an "i" here, "grain" would
have been a 2, not a 1, so we know it can't be an "i".  Thus, the only
way to merge "e#rie 2" into "g????" is "g?r?e".

Similarly the only way to merge "e#rie 2" into "????n" is "e?r?n".

If you wanted to do this more mechanically, you could draw a grid, like
this, with all possible pairs from "e#rie" across the top, and the old
patterns down the side.  Compare each pair to get the new PATTERN list.

        e?r??  e??i?  e???e  ??ri?  ??r?e  ???ie
      +-----------------------------------------
g???? |   -      -      -      -    g?r?e    -
???i? |   -    e??i?    -    ??ri?    -    ???ie
????n | e?r?n    -      -      -      -      -

It's obvious why you can't combine "e?r??" with "g????".  e!=g.  You
can't combine "e??i?" with "g????" because in the 4th position or
"g????" the ? cannot be an "i".  You can't combine "e?r??" with "???i?"
for almost the same reason.

Either way you do the analysis, the new result is

NEGATIVES (unchanged)

POSSIBLES[1] ge
         [2]
         [3] r
         [4] i
         [5] ne

PATTERNS
   g?r?e
   e??i?
   ??ri?
   ???ie
   e?r?n

Next word is "grasp 1".  Knocking out the negatives gives "g###p 1".  So
either the first letter must be a 'g' or the last must be a 'p'.  We can
merge that into the list of patterns easily enough.  Note that the
pattern "e?r?n" is incompatible with this, and so is dropped.  Note also
that ? in column 1 cannot be turned into 'g' because 'g' is on the
POSSIBLE list for column 1.

NEGATIVES[1] cfs
         [2] rewl
         [3] ale
         [4] sta
         [5] hsrt

POSSIBLES[1] ge
         [2]
         [3] r
         [4] i
         [5] nep

PATTERNS
   g?r?e
   e??ip
   ??rip

At this point, we are in pretty good shape to guess.  "gorse" doesn't
work (the 's' is a negative).  The second case could only be 'equip'. 
The word 'atrip' is possible for the last.  'adrip' seems like more of a
word, but m-w.com does not agree.  So 'equip' is a pretty solid guess at
this point.

This process wouldn't be too hard to implement.  The merge step is the
hardest, and that'd probably work cutely with a recursive algorithm.  Of
course the run time is exponential in the number of letters.  I'm
willing to bet that the problem is actually NP-complete (it just stinks
of satisfiability), so there is little hope of doing better.  But as
long is N is just 5, that needn't concern us.

Of course, if you have a good word list, a much simpler approach is just
to read through the word list, discarding any words that don't fit all
the results to date.  But that's no fun.
bhelliom
response 300 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 08:13 UTC 2003

Touch
carson
response 301 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 10:31 UTC 2003

re #290:  (yes, this item is linked to Games/Puzzle/IQ, where the 6-letter
          and 7-letter variants also can be found.  I'd considered *not*
          linking this one, but decided otherwise after I couldn't remember
          why it seemed like a good idea to not link it.)

          (Games/Puzzle/IQ really needs an interested FW.)

price

bhelliom
response 302 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 14:00 UTC 2003

It doesn't have one?  I'd certainly be interested if no-one currently 
able to fw it.
jep
response 303 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 14:16 UTC 2003

vowel
bhelliom
response 304 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 15:06 UTC 2003

Towel :)
ea
response 305 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 16:40 UTC 2003

slice
bhelliom
response 306 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 17:14 UTC 2003

spice
oval
response 307 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 21:19 UTC 2003

trick
aruba
response 308 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 03:38 UTC 2003

----------
flaky  0  (lastword)
----------
flawn  0  (gelinas)
sales  0  (janc)
trout  1  (jep)
begin  0  (remmers)
mixer  0  (russ)
----------
treat  0  (janc)
touch  0  (bhelliom)
price  1  (carson)
vowel  0  (jep)
slice  1  (ea)
trick  0  (oval)

Sylvia - I'm enforcing the "one guess per batch" rule, so I only scored your
first guess.  Feel free to guess the others again.
other
response 309 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 03:50 UTC 2003

deuce
aruba
response 310 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 04:09 UTC 2003

----------
flaky  0  (lastword)
----------
flawn  0  (gelinas)
sales  0  (janc)
trout  1  (jep)
begin  0  (remmers)
mixer  0  (russ)
----------
treat  0  (janc)
touch  0  (bhelliom)
price  1  (carson)
vowel  0  (jep)
slice  1  (ea)
trick  0  (oval)
----------
deuce  1  (other)
tonster
response 311 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 04:43 UTC 2003

trace
gelinas
response 312 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 04:44 UTC 2003

shore
janc
response 313 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 04:59 UTC 2003

imbue
other
response 314 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 07:41 UTC 2003

elide
remmers
response 315 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 12:10 UTC 2003

crimp
aruba
response 316 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 14:42 UTC 2003

----------
flaky  0  (lastword)
----------
flawn  0  (gelinas)
sales  0  (janc)
trout  1  (jep)
begin  0  (remmers)
mixer  0  (russ)
----------
treat  0  (janc)
touch  0  (bhelliom)
price  1  (carson)
vowel  0  (jep)
slice  1  (ea)
trick  0  (oval)
----------
deuce  1  (other)
----------
trace  1  (tonster)
shore  2  (gelinas)
imbue  1  (janc)
elide  1  (other)
crimp  0  (remmers)
other
response 317 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 15:02 UTC 2003

whore  (had to do it.  it seems to fit.)  ;)
janc
response 318 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 15:52 UTC 2003

quote
aruba
response 319 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 16:58 UTC 2003

----------
flaky  0  (lastword)
----------
flawn  0  (gelinas)
sales  0  (janc)
trout  1  (jep)
begin  0  (remmers)
mixer  0  (russ)
----------
treat  0  (janc)
touch  0  (bhelliom)
price  1  (carson)
vowel  0  (jep)
slice  1  (ea)
trick  0  (oval)
----------
deuce  1  (other)
----------
trace  1  (tonster)
shore  2  (gelinas)
imbue  1  (janc)
elide  1  (other)
crimp  0  (remmers)
----------
whore  2  (other)
quote  2  (janc)
jep
response 320 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 17:27 UTC 2003

Gee, I think it ends with an "e".  And the middle letter is "o".

atone
albaugh
response 321 of 1578: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 18:04 UTC 2003

since
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