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Grex > Agora35 > #124: Win the electoral college but lose the popular vote? | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 409 responses total. |
mcnally
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response 275 of 409:
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Nov 29 02:04 UTC 2000 |
I remain consistently flabbergasted by the Bush camp's constantly repeated
exaggerations of the number of vote counts that have been completed in
Florida and I keep waiting for the networks and for newspaper reporters
to start calling Jim Baker on it every time he makes another cynically
self-serving misstatement on the subject, but I have a feeling I'm in for
a long wait. (In the interests of fairness, I'm also willing to issue a
seltzer bottle to anyone in Florida with a valid press card so they can
drench Gore the next time he makes a pious statement about "making sure
every vote counts.")
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krj
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response 276 of 409:
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Nov 29 03:04 UTC 2000 |
I'm in agreement with Mike in his resp:275, but I go
even further. Almost all of the arguments coming out of the Bush
camp with respect to the Florida recounts have lowered my
impression of them, and it was pretty low to begin with.
Dear Bushies, I wasn't born yesterday! The only Bush-side argument
I can think of which didn't insult my intelligence was the
"separation of powers" argument.
Other than that, everything the Bushies have said flies in
the face of everything I've known about how elections are run, through
years of being a politics junkie.
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rcurl
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response 277 of 409:
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Nov 29 06:38 UTC 2000 |
Re #273: Bush doesn't agree with you (or, didn't): he signed into law
in Texas a bill specifying hand recounts to settle contested elections
because they are more accurate. This is true in a great number of states,
including Florida. The NEW Bush rhetoric is now the reverse - the hypocrit.
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bdh3
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response 278 of 409:
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Nov 29 07:42 UTC 2000 |
Loserman.
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aruba
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response 279 of 409:
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Nov 29 08:11 UTC 2000 |
Re #274: I believe two counties' hand counts were accepted by the SoS:
Volusha County, which finished in time for the original
one-week-after-the-election deadline, and Broward county, which finished in
time for the Supreme Court's Sunday 11/26 deadline. The count in Palm Beach
was finished but not included in the results, and the count in Miami Dade
was not finished. Those are the 4 counties in which the Gore campaign
requested recounts.
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senna
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response 280 of 409:
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Nov 29 10:18 UTC 2000 |
Sadly, far too many politicians will wade in hypocrisy at the drop of a
feather if it serves them politically, sexually, or monetarily. It's so
tiresome. Why do you suppose I pay more attention to sports than politics?
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rcurl
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response 281 of 409:
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Nov 29 15:59 UTC 2000 |
Because it is a waste of time? (or, ALSO a waste of time?).
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senna
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response 282 of 409:
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Nov 29 18:17 UTC 2000 |
Also a waste of time, but it's more entertaining, with (amazingly) better
people, at least in the sports I watch. I mostly have extreme distaste for
the self-righteous parties bickering with each other and pretending that they
actually have a moral advantage where none exists. I mean, come on. Both
of them are whining and moaning and claiming the other is the putative
embodiment of evil, knowing full well they would do the exact same thing in
that position. Just shut up and go away.
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rcurl
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response 283 of 409:
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Nov 29 18:28 UTC 2000 |
How else could they act and respond, and meet your approval?
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aaron
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response 284 of 409:
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Nov 29 21:26 UTC 2000 |
Another thing the Bush camp glosses over is how wildy disparate the two
machine counts were. If machine counting is so wonderfully accurate, why
the 49,000,000:1 change in the outcome? Whatever warts hand counting may
have, it seems extremely unlikely that it could be less accurate than
Florida's machine count.
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krj
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response 285 of 409:
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Nov 29 22:59 UTC 2000 |
Today's Bush outrage: after stalling stalling stalling until it's too late
to do a full manual recount on Miami Dade, the Bushies now demand that
if any examination of the undervote there happens, it must be accompanied
by a full manual recount. Clearly a delaying tactic.
I am really hoping we can goad the Florida legislature into awarding
the 25 electors to Bush.
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rcurl
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response 286 of 409:
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Nov 30 06:52 UTC 2000 |
Must have been a typo - you mean, to Gore, don't you?
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krj
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response 287 of 409:
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Nov 30 11:36 UTC 2000 |
No. As I've written elsewhere, I think it's nearly certain that Bush
will be inaugurated as President. I'm just cheering on the GOP to
do as much damage as possible in the process of installing him.
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gull
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response 288 of 409:
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Nov 30 18:51 UTC 2000 |
I doubt any of this will help turnout next time. Why bother voting if your
the counting process is hopelessly flawed anyway?
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senna
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response 289 of 409:
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Nov 30 19:09 UTC 2000 |
One of the reasons turnout is so lousy is apathy toward the available options.
And wouldn't you know it, I don't think either of the parties are doing
themselves any favors in that department.
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krj
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response 290 of 409:
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Dec 3 07:28 UTC 2000 |
Today's Miami Herald (www.miamiherald.com) runs a statistical analysis
arguing that Florida's elections screwups cost Gore a 20,000 vote win
in Florida.
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mdw
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response 291 of 409:
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Dec 3 07:38 UTC 2000 |
That sounds about right -- from the sounds of it, most of it is the
butterfly ballot.
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bdh3
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response 292 of 409:
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Dec 3 09:44 UTC 2000 |
Its december third. Get over it. The election as agreed to by all
parties concerned in advance is over. Live with it.
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rcurl
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response 293 of 409:
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Dec 3 21:33 UTC 2000 |
There are full provisions in Florida law for contesting elections, and
this election is sure contestable. Your mantra of "get over it" is
just the hubris of those with the temporary upper hand. They may, in
fact, win, with all of the delaying tactics they are playing, but in
the end the truth will become known, and they will suffer the backlash.
There is a saying about reaping what you sow.
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mdw
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response 294 of 409:
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Dec 4 02:51 UTC 2000 |
That might be true if voters had a memory longer than 1 week.
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krj
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response 295 of 409:
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Dec 4 05:50 UTC 2000 |
Seminole County: uh-oh. On MSNBC's "Hardball" show, a Democratic
congressman from Florida charges that Democrats were denied the opportunity
to fix defective absentee ballot applications there.
It's agreed by both sides that the Republicans were given access to
fix their defective absentee ballot applications. The argument is that
this was just a technical violation of the rules. But if a charge that
the Democrats were denied similar access stands up, then I think it
becomes awfully likely that those absentee votes will be tossed.
Oh dear.
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bru
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response 296 of 409:
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Dec 4 12:29 UTC 2000 |
On face the nation, one of the people said that the Dems WANT to drag this
out so that the Florida legislature HAS to make a decision on choosing Bush
electors. They figure to make gains in the next election if it does occur.
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senna
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response 297 of 409:
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Dec 4 12:59 UTC 2000 |
Ken sounds legitimately concerned that Florida might be overturned. It sounds
suspiciously like he is more worried about public opinion than he is about
getting his candidate in the white house. I can't say I'd blame him.
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mdw
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response 298 of 409:
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Dec 4 18:43 UTC 2000 |
I know my candidate won't make it to the whitehouse no matter which side
wins in Florida. I would just like to see the Republicans make as much
of an honest effort to get all the votes counted accurately and fairly
as the Democrats.
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aruba
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response 299 of 409:
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Dec 4 19:22 UTC 2000 |
I heard a reporter on one of the news channels say what Ken heard the
congressman say on Hardball. I would like to hear more about it.
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