response 270 of 295:

Dec 28 02:32 UTC 1997

actually, that isn't exactly the defenition of lawful stupid that my friends
tend to use...
it goes something like this (or, at least, here are a fewexamples)
I'm honorable, therefore sneaking and skulking is bad, therefore I will
anonounce myself and charge at this castle full of 300 anti-paladins 20 dark
wizards and 12 or so dark priests...what do you mean I die?
or, alternately, \:
no! stealing is bad! we must give the dark adept his evil weapon of mass
destruction back! it is HIS, after all

I think you get the idea :)

response 272 of 295:

Dec 28 17:54 UTC 1997

now, the question is weather or not the palidin can justify sneaking around
as being acceptable.
as i understand paladins, they're supposed to be very similar to malikim
the warrior angels, with a multitude of oaths, but the main one's being
'suffer no evil to live' 'n stuff like that.
so, the question is, does it violate his/her personall ethics? and if it does
is it reasonable to assume that he's got enough brains to get over a
significantly universe/reality threataning threat? or especially if he follows
a god, a patron deity threataning thingymabober the other point is that,
instead of STEALING the evil wizard's spell book or whatever, you just smash
it... or better yet, have one of your freinds make it backfire in a
spectacular, and hopefully fatal way

response 274 of 295:

Dec 28 23:46 UTC 1997

Ah, but the Paladin is also an example of his church/temple/whatever.  How
are people going to be able to respect your faith if you kill everyone evil
you meet and your only justification is "he/she/it was evil"?  Paladins are
supposed to oppose evil, but "suffer no evil to live" gets you in the
dead-book pretty fast.  Despite a beings personal aspirations regarding
alignment, sometimes people of opposite alignment actually want to help you.
Just because he's Chaotic Evil and you're Lawful Good doesn't mean he isn't
useful, he may even be your friend - after all, changing alignment is ALWAYS
a possibility.  It also just doesn't do to have a kill everything evil
attitude when Planewalking, especially on Evilly aligned planes.  Planar
Paladins have been known to kill Prime Paladins and those of their own ranks
for that attitude and it isn't quick or plesant either.

response 276 of 295:

Dec 30 16:15 UTC 1997

My memory is rather vague on the details but I think the series was the Rose
of the Prophets. THere was an organization in it that (in the terms of D&D
based alignments) would probably be claled lawful evil. THey were a clan of
assasins, feared throughout the land (etc) but among themselves they were
decent honorable and pleasant. The book presented a very good picture from
a point of view that is not often seen in most fantasy literature.

response 278 of 295:

Dec 30 22:43 UTC 1997

ANY ONE PLAY DESCENT II?

response 280 of 295:

Jan 16 22:45 UTC 1998

Matthew - it occurs to me that I actually _have_ read Rose of the Prophet ages
ago, but I've pretty much forgotten about it.  I still have my copy someplace.

response 282 of 295:

Jan 17 20:42 UTC 1998

Actually, I found the idea of the 20 gods in different 'positions' much more
interesting than the mortal plot.

response 284 of 295:

Feb 5 16:06 UTC 2000

Wow. Not only has it been 2 years since anyone posted here, I was the last
one to do so.
Anyways, I was looking through my boxes of old gaming stuff and came across
my copy of The Fantasy Trip (Advanced Melee &  Wizard and Into the Labrynth).
Does anyone recall running across any copies of this system anywhere recently
?

response 286 of 295:

Feb 7 04:02 UTC 2000

Whoa.. now for something totally different, I guess.. so much to respond 
to.. eep..

Well, I got my start on D&D, and it was okay at the time-- but I did 
note that the alignment system was limiting (most everyone I talked to 
seemed to think LG was a joke, and most everyone I played with chose to 
be CG), and that the dice system was a little too complicated.  A friend 
of mine told me about Earthdawn, and then I wondered why D&D PCs didn't 
have to know the legend of an artifact before it would work too.  With 
Earthdawn, an artifact will function as its non-magical counterpart 
until the character learns it is an artifact, i.e., knows who it 
belonged to and what that person did, etc.

Marvel Super Heroes was next.  Not the best system either, but the group 
I was with began to learn the art of role-playing MUCH better, both in 
GM'ing and regular play.

I got introduced to C.H.E.A.P. and SLA Industries (WoC's little merc rp 
game they acquired from a little company) a while afterward.  C.H.E.A.P. 
was nice-- it allowed for a lot of imagination in character creation-- 
we could be anything, and we could pick any powers we wanted-- the 
system regulated things nicely-- we could have a few potent powers, or 
many rather wimpy ones.  It didn't matter much, though.  The game was 
all about humor.  SLA Industries was typical merc in an environment 
similar to the cyberpunk games.  (Anyone remember it?  Ebons, Brain 
Wasters, Shaktars..?)

Then I went to a con and just played a few different games.  Over the 
Edge was enjoyable, and a friend from the SLA meetings ran a 2nd ed. 
Star Wars game I was really impressed with.  I was also introduced to my 
hometown Camarilla/Werewolf group in the con.  I wasn't terribly 
impressed at the time-- too many flamy guys and their fag hags, to put 
it bluntly.  I was a Garou for that short session because I didn't fancy 
playing a vampire and my girlfriend at the time was taking the game and 
the vampire concept a little too.. seriously (in mind only-- she didn't 
dress gothy or anything like that).

Interestingly enough, I was introduced to Vampire when I started 
courting my wife.  (Our Storyteller, Rebecca, became our maid of honor.) 
 I found the table top experience pleasant enough to forget my LARP 
experience, and I started playing a few Toreador seriously.  The size of 
our sessions varied-- sometimes it was just my wife and I playing, or 
some or all of a group including our Storyteller's friends (and a 
sister) played.

Rebecca's older sister introduced us to NERO, but we are a little 
reluctant, seeing she is tied up in nasty politics regarding a local 
rival area, whose leader is trying to wipe her out.  At most, we said we 
*might* be NPCs sometime, since we were more interested in role-playing, 
even if it was just making the best of whatever we were handed.  We 
didn't want to tangle with the power mongers.

I rolled my eyes when I found out one of my sisters joined the Camarilla 
group.  One of its members is someone I know from high school who has 
gained an odious reputation.  Her boyfriend is a member, too.  I talked 
to her today and she assured me for the third time the group has largely 
changed.  She and her SO referred us to some locals (Ellensburg 
residents) who are in the group.  I still have my doubts, but we had a 
falling out with Rebecca and it looks like we have no where else to 
play.

I think I'm going to remain a Vampire fan-- but by no means an obsessive 
one.  I carefully studied the subtle nuances of the game that I thought 
I could roleplay well.  I never had the chance, but I considered playing 
Nosferatu and Salubri characters despite the difficulties they pose in 
group (especially a LARGE group) play.

I had an unfinished project left behind.  The first Toreador I created, 
Lazaro was introverted, pacifistic, and happiest playing the heritage of 
his homeland, Andulucia, on his guitar, or playing smooth/swing jazz at 
the Rose in Chicago.  (The Rose was our Storyteller's creation-- a jazz 
nightclub, mostly swing.)

Then she decided to take the large group into Montreal, and I had to 
create another Toreador.  That whole story resulted in a huge mess that 
virtually stripped my poor 600 yr old vampire of anything he had; the 
Storyteller had managed to assume princedom of Montreal with one of her 
old characters.  Of course, the Sabbat overran Chicago.

She hastily wrapped it up by spinning time backwards to the moment 
before Montreal.  It happened due to paradox created by a magical item 
known as Daedalus, brought to the area by an evil mage arriving by 
airplane.

I wasn't satisfied, though.  I had never considered Golconda, but Lazaro 
seemed so earmarked for it.  I carefully researched it in the Vampire 
books.  It grew more intense as I realized I wouldn't get to roleplay 
it.  Rebecca recommended I try my hand at Storytelling, so I started an 
ambitious plan for a Golconda campaign, thinking somehow I would fit 
Lazaro in.  Now I had to figure out how he would clean up his internal 
conflict, while planning to guide the players to a similar quest for 
inner peace.

I am rather busy with my school studies, so pursuing the Golconda quest 
is just about the only real priority on my roleplaying list (when I'm 
not mudding to get a substitute).  Strangely enough, it's the only thing 
that seems to express what I'm experiencing in real life.  Of course 
role-playing is just meant to be entertainment-- but I can't help making 
it meaningful.  I suppose that's just the philosopher in me.

response 288 of 295:

Apr 26 23:17 UTC 2000

You should be over here, Anne, so you can try out the LARP version, the 
Camarilla.  The highest concentrations of elders are in the Seattle 
area and the organization is biggest between there and Portland.

Since my table top involvement died, I decided to join the local 
chapter in Ellensburg-- our Chapter Coordinator moved here from Salem 
with her husband a while back.  I had misgivings before, since I knew 
of the group back in my hometown (the Tri-Cities had a chapter quite a 
while ago), as I said earlier, but I liked the folks I met locally, and 
plus, one of my sisters was now involved, so it has been a nice way to 
keep in touch.  The Tri-Cities group had changed a bit, but they do 
tend to have politics in and out of the game.

In some ways, I've learned the overall game better in a role-playing 
setting, especially in how boons work.  I decided to climb out of my 
comfort zone as a Toreador and made a Nosferatu-- Karl Mueller, 
embraced in the dawn of WWII in Nazi Germany.  In the table top 
campaign I had been in, the Sewer Rats seemed a *difficult* clan to 
play, but in a live-action setting, I find life as a Nos quite easy, 
since it's in my best interest to be aware of what's going on.

Meeting Wolves and Cats, Anne?  That's a rare occurence, since the 
Kindred are regarded as Wyrm-tainted..  Khan and Simba especially have 
nasty gifts that can be used against Kindred.

response 290 of 295:

Apr 27 21:52 UTC 2000

Yes, Bubastis are nasty, properly played, and probably the only ones 
that might be involved in any degree with Kindred, such as Anya Z.

Vampire organization?  The Camarilla is what the national organization 
calls its LARP division.  Actually, it is produced jointly with White 
Wolf and Mind's Eye Theatre, which I am assuming started in Seattle 
since the head honchos are there-- and yes, they play equivalents of 
4th and 3rd generation characters.

LARP does have the unfortunate disadvantage of attracting players that 
take the game way too seriously.  However, our chapter coordinator is 
quick to dismiss anyone who can't separate fantasy from reality.  Her 
motto is if you're into drinking blood or weird shit like that, don't 
bother joining, and hie thee unto some serious counseling.  We're 
*really* fortunate not to have anything like unto that in E-burg.  The 
Tri-Cities had some folks that got into the weird blood drinking early 
on, but they are gone, and they are mostly forgotten.

I love the table top version when I can get it-- there is the advantage 
of much more complex and subtle story lines, but there is the 
limitation of how much the Storyteller can handle at once, and how 
adeptly he or she runs the game.  My last Storyteller at the table 
fudged a lot of things, and she's-- as I said-- into Mage, running it 
or playing it full-tilt cheese.  (I'll admit, Mage is *hard* to 
understand in detail.)  Right now, since I can't play table top, I play 
it LARP, which gives me the pleasure of a bit more dramatics.

It's also my theory that you will have people with issues at the table 
or on live-action overall, and although it may be easier to avoid it at 
the table, you'll still get some of it (power gamers, cheezers, 
cheaters, the clueless).

hmmm.. I'll e-mail you later.  Is Vanessa still playing?  (If she's in 
your group, I would imagine she's the Tremere.)

response 292 of 295:

Apr 28 20:04 UTC 2000

<giggle> yha but with live action some of us shine
i tel lyha, i didn't like live action till i got back into retail work
now my lying and bs skills are so through the roof that it's great to have
othe rplayers to go against, you can get them all fighting each other whilst
you stand around raking in the cash, cattle and credentials.
<drool>
especially if you go in with two or three freinds and pull a sanctuary.
the Cammirilla is the "OFFICAL" white goth,,,errrrr wolf group with
games accross the country, 20$ a year gets you playing as many as you want,
and from what i understand, the same character everywhere.
soudns intrugiuing, but yha, a nice table top game sprawled out on my
comfy chair is nice too.