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Grex > Oldcoop > #358: Member initative: Stop paying for dial-up | |
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tod
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response 25 of 52:
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Sep 5 22:58 UTC 2006 |
Maybe Grex should redirect some resources from paying for dialup to donating
newer equipment to the needy?
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naftee
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response 26 of 52:
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Sep 5 23:16 UTC 2006 |
re 22 I have a couple of those dinosaurs at home.
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saw
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response 27 of 52:
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Sep 6 15:16 UTC 2006 |
Here's a possible idea: Can we use an existing dial-up provider's
terminal server(s) to allow users to dial in and telnet to Grex
that way?
I know it's (technically) possible. At my last job (admin at a
dial-up ISP about 4 or 5 years ago) I did just this. I used it
for business customers who wanted UUCP over modem. (They would
dial into our terminal server, log in with an assigned username
and password, and our terminal server would patch them over to the
UUCP port on our mail machine -- no PPP or SLIP involved.)
We were running 3com Total Control HiPer ARC.
I even set up an account that would telnet you to my personal Linux
server. You could dial in with HyperTerminal, log in to this account,
and it would immediately telnet you over there. I even did this when
traveling, using our (outsourced through MegaPOP) nationwide access
numbers. I could dial into MegaPOP's server using HyperTerminal, login
with this account, and the MegaPOP terminal server would telnet me to
my server.
If I recall correctly, it was a matter of using some special RADIUS
attributes to make it work. But it did.
The real question here would be price as compared to what is being paid
now for the two modem lines. Potentially, Grex could go as far as using
MegaPOP (or some similar service) to do this, and providing nationwide
dialup (terminal based -- not PPP) access to Grex. Or, possibly just use
a local ISP?
The major difference (for end-users) is going to be that they will have to
deal with two logins and passwords. The first to log into the ISP's
terminal server (and obtain a connection to Grex), and second with their
actual Grex login.
Just thought I would mention it.
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tod
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response 28 of 52:
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Sep 6 19:21 UTC 2006 |
re #27
Yea, Grex could totally point people towards Merit or MichNet if there was
a relationship there.
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steve
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response 29 of 52:
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Sep 6 21:17 UTC 2006 |
I don't think anyone would touch the contracting of two modems.
However, its worth the cost of an email to Provide.net, our ISP.
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saw
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response 30 of 52:
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Sep 7 15:21 UTC 2006 |
Right. I wouldn't expect anyone to entertain the idea of contracting
for just two modems. When we were researching nationwide dial-up
providers, a lot of them had insane minimum commitments. At least,
insane for us. We were a (relatively) small ISP, most of our customers
were local -- and we just wanted to provide a convenient way for them
to use the service when traveling.
I was thinking along the lines of Grex leveraging some ISP's existing
infrastructure. It would eliminate the need for Grex to pay for two
dedicated lines (which probably sit unused most of the time.) It would
also potentially (assuming that the provider doesn't limit the number of
simultaneous logins to the account) allow Grex to have more than 2 users
dialed in at any given time. Obviously, dial-up demand has decrased over
the years -- I have personally seen Grex go from 13 lines down to 2.
However, for the rare instance that 3, 4, or even 5 people want to dial in
at the same time, this could be handy.
I agree that Provide.net is probably the best place to ask first, since
Grex already has a relationship with them.
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keesan
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response 31 of 52:
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Sep 26 19:17 UTC 2006 |
I dial in to grex several times a day and get a busy signal maybe once a month
so one line should be enough, except that one of the two modems is sometimes
not working.
What does a non-pcmcia wireless ethernet card cost new, or used?
The linux I use would need a different kernel to support wireless but I could
probably figure it out. How stable is a wireless connection? Would it work
in a house with metal roof and aluminum vapor barrier? The neighbor offered
to let us attempt to connect to his for practice. My linux does not support
USB but does support ethernet connections to a DSL modem (I have used it that
way via ethernet cable).
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cross
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response 32 of 52:
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Sep 26 19:25 UTC 2006 |
There are access points you can get that sort of act as "boosters" to the
signal; the access point would "connect" to the wireless network, and then
you could run ethernet from there to a switch or cheap hub to conenct your
machines.
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keesan
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response 33 of 52:
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Sep 27 02:02 UTC 2006 |
Re 32, are you saying I would buy an access point, put it where the signal
was stronger outside the house, and then run cable inside to a hub? (Which
I presume would have to stay powered on all the time). I have never set up
anything wireless. Our closest attempt at a network was via nullmodem cable
and required both computers to be running in order for the second one to go
online.
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cross
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response 34 of 52:
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Sep 27 02:19 UTC 2006 |
Yeah, pretty much.
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keesan
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response 35 of 52:
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Sep 27 02:25 UTC 2006 |
What software do I need to run to access the hub from my linux computer? Do
I get an IP number for the hub or access point?
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cross
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response 36 of 52:
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Sep 27 02:32 UTC 2006 |
The hub is just a dumb piece of electronics; you plug ethernet cables into
it, and then cables into the ethernet adapter in your computer. In most home
setups, there's a router that also has a builtin DHCP server that will hand
out IP addresses.
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mcnally
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response 37 of 52:
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Sep 27 03:29 UTC 2006 |
The type of device you want is often called a wireless bridge.
Some cheap access points support the functionality with replacement
homebrew firmware that you can download from the internet -- that's
probably more economical than paying for a device designed for the
purpose because economies of scale make designing, marketing, and
selling the much more popular access points cheaper than the fairly
uncommon bridge devices.
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twenex
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response 38 of 52:
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Sep 27 13:08 UTC 2006 |
The only software you need is the driver for the network card.
Linux-compatible network cards are usually supported by the kernel by default
anyway.
Of course, with that minimalist linux you run you might have to (re-)compile
the kernel with the right driver.
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keesan
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response 39 of 52:
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Sep 28 01:49 UTC 2006 |
I have linux support for all the network cards that I am using in my
computers, and I have a few hubs (I can connect two computers via
non-crossover cables plugged into the powered-on hub). What do I plug the
hub into and does that also need power? A router with software in it?
I use the same linux kernel for various computers, and insmod the module for
the network card (rtl8139 or tulip or 3c59x...). Then use ifconfig to assign
an address to my own computer.
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cross
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response 40 of 52:
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Sep 28 02:45 UTC 2006 |
That's right. You would get a router that runs some software, though usually
it sort of comes built-in. Or, someone else would run the router and you'd
just have the wireless access point (that would be plugged in, yes) that would
sort of bridge wirelessly to the network of the person who had the router.
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nharmon
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response 41 of 52:
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Sep 28 10:40 UTC 2006 |
Here is a diagram:
<PC>
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<Hub>-------<Wireless AP> ) ) ) ) ( ( ( ( <Wireless Router>-.
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<PC> <Cable/DSL Modem>
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keesan
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response 42 of 52:
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Sep 28 15:10 UTC 2006 |
The neighbor has a router, and apparently Washtenaw County will have the
equivalent. What does a 'wireless access point' look like? We have a variety
of things people gave us over the years into which we can plug ethernet
cables, some of them labelled ADSL, some of them with antenna. There is
something that came in a box and has an antenna, and also came with a pcmcia
wireless ethernet card and a CD for Windows. Is that a hub or a router or
an AP? Jim's son has something with an antenna that picks up a signal that
is then fed to a desktop wireless ethernet card - is that an AP? If so, I
will ask him more about them. What would a new or used one cost?
Sort of a nuisance having to plug in two extra gadgets every time you want
to go online, which might be in another part of the house (or leave two power
adaptors running all the time wasting energy). Except for downloading large
files we are happy with dialup and it is more stable.
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nharmon
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response 43 of 52:
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Sep 28 15:32 UTC 2006 |
A wireless access point looks like a modem with an ethernet jack, power
jack, and one or two antennas. As for the things you have laying around,
if you give us some make/models or model numbers, we might be able to help.
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keesan
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response 44 of 52:
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Sep 29 04:30 UTC 2006 |
I will (tomorrow) dig out anything with an antenna and power supply that is
not a radio. After we finishing sorting and freezing Chinese chestnuts.
First things first. What would a new wireless access point cost? We
currently pay nothing for dialup service and are happy with it.
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nharmon
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response 45 of 52:
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Sep 29 11:10 UTC 2006 |
Maybe around $20? for a Linksys WAP11 (802.11b). That is just a guess.
But if you're happy with dialup, then what the heck? :-)
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keesan
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response 46 of 52:
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Sep 29 13:44 UTC 2006 |
We have a Wireless -B Network Kit Router + Notebook Adapter. The bigger
gadget has two antennas and a power supply cube and also in back four ethernet
ports plus a fifth one with an ethernet cable in it. 24GHz. Linksys
broadband router. Is this something that can both pick up and broadcast
wireless signals, or just pick up signals over the included ethernet cable
and then give you a choice of broadcasting them to a laptop computer or
plugging in four desktop computers without an additional hub? The wireless
card worked for someone in their laptop but not for us even with Win98,
however the BIOS was screwed up at the time and we fixed it since (the modem
would not work either in Windows, and does now). All-In-One Wireless Internet
Sharing Solution from teh Worldwide Leader in Wireless Networking! Intended
to share your high-speed internet connection with wired and wireless computers.
Built-in 4-port Ethernet Switch and Wireless Access Point... Rates up to 11
MBps. I don't know why it was given to us, maybe they got a faster one?
If this is what we need to pick up a wireless signal and get it to a desktop
computer via ethernet cable, how would we use it with linux?
We have a Windows CD for the router and for the PCMCIA card. Does Windows
transfer the software to the router?
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nharmon
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response 47 of 52:
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Sep 29 14:20 UTC 2006 |
I would say it is likely they got a faster one. I gave my mom my
wireless B router after I upgraded. The router (bigger gadget) is
designed to be connected to a broadband modem (cable or DSL), and then
share that connection to a variety of computers. However, I am not sure
if that router is able to act as a wireless bridge.
Here is how you can use it: Plug the device. In the back there is a
reset button you may been a paperclip to push. Push and hold for 30
seconds to reset the router's configuration. Plug a computer into one of
the ethernet ports, but not the port labeled "WAN". Said computer should
be configured to obtain an IP address using DHCP. Most likely, you will
get an address of 192.168.1.something. You will want to use a web
browser and go to 192.168.1.1 (or whatever the DHCP sets as your default
gateway). I forget the default username/password, its something like
'admin' and no password, or no username with password 'admin', you might
need to experiment.
Once you get into the configuration screen you should be able to find
out if it will work as a wireless bridge.
If you have any more questions, feel free to post them to the new
jellyware conference. :)
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keesan
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response 48 of 52:
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Sep 29 16:24 UTC 2006 |
I phoned MCRS who said I needed a bridge, and not what we have (which is
designed to broadcast but not receive a wireless signal). And that a wired
connection was much more stable than wireless. I can run dhcp in linux and
have plugged my own computer into someone's router and used it, but we have
nothing to plug the router into. The paper documentation for our gadget
mentioned nothing about picking up a wireless signal. We will continue trying
to make the wireless pcmcia card work in Windows so we can at least download
large files at the library. Or maybe they have a working USB port now to plug
our 64MB memory stick into. The neighbor may not actually have a wireless
setup, he was just thinking about setting one up so he could move his computer
upstairs without running a cable.
I looked up 'wireless access point' and they are now about 54MBits/sec and
ours is 11MBits/sec. More than adequate to get an 85Kbit/sec signal. How
fast are most DSL lines?
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nharmon
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response 49 of 52:
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Sep 29 19:47 UTC 2006 |
1-5MBits/sec
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