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Grex > Oldcoop > #193: Cyberspace Communications finances for August 2004 | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 80 responses total. |
slynne
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response 25 of 80:
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Sep 12 21:27 UTC 2004 |
It is an interesting issue to be sure. The hard truth is that if we
find we dont have the resources to continue as we are, we have to do
something else. It is true that some of those options arent as nice as
what we have now. But they are cheaper and would require much less
staffing. We might find we have no choice but to go that route. And we
might find that the change isnt as bad as predicted.
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tod
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response 26 of 80:
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Sep 12 21:38 UTC 2004 |
mdw and STeve aren't around anymore to fix the box and popcorn lost her mind
altogether..seems like alternatives should be entertained for logical reasons
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twenex
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response 27 of 80:
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Sep 13 02:47 UTC 2004 |
What happened to mdw and STeve, exactly? Lose interest?
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mary
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response 28 of 80:
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Sep 13 10:37 UTC 2004 |
What happened is other obligations, either family or health or
jobs, or all of it. STeve is still around. But you know what,
it's okay to lose interest too. Just because you give generously
of your time for a long time doesn't mean you are obligated to do
so forever. That's always been true and it's wrong to hold a sense
of entitlement over how our volunteers spend their time.
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tod
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response 29 of 80:
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Sep 13 14:01 UTC 2004 |
re #28
I agree and think that is why flexibility needs to be examined in Grex's
existence in order to survive.
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twenex
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response 30 of 80:
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Sep 13 14:11 UTC 2004 |
Did I say anything in #27 that required a defence a la #28?
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remmers
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response 31 of 80:
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Sep 13 19:41 UTC 2004 |
I think Mary was responding more to #26.
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albaugh
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response 32 of 80:
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Sep 13 19:58 UTC 2004 |
I guess when I think about it I have assumed that the people who have stuck
around grex have been those who are attracted by what grex is. I'm willing
to be proven wrong, that it's "the community" that keeps them here, regardless
of the underlying technology. But I believe, at least for myself, if grex
just become some conference SIG somewhere on some system, part of a "corporate
takeover/buy-out", that it will cease being grex, and will therefore cease
being something I'm interested in continuing participation with.
I am also admitting openly that if reliable access to grex remains dubious,
I will discontinue or greatly curtail participation.
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tod
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response 33 of 80:
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Sep 13 20:53 UTC 2004 |
I wouldn't be around if Grex went corporate. I'd stick around if the
machinery were changed around a bit to support reliable connectivity though...
There would still have to be a "party" and "bbs" though and it would have to
not suck (i.e. no GUI lameness)
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naftee
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response 34 of 80:
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Sep 13 21:11 UTC 2004 |
I'd give money if and only if GreX removed the ID rule
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other
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response 35 of 80:
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Sep 13 21:21 UTC 2004 |
I think the confusion here is because the sense of what Grex is
includes more than the design of the community, but the fact that it
is an entirely self-contained and self-controlled entity,
financially and technologically. By that I refer to its occupying
its own space in the physical and Internet worlds both. The power
that the communty has to shape Grex is limited only by imagination,
law, and the dynamics of Grex's democratic style governance.
A big part of its history is resident in the experiences of members
of the community who dealt directly with the physical and codebase
components of Grex. The makeup of the community has shifted largely
away from those who literally created it, and like with most things,
those community participants whose behavior makes it clear that they
least value the community that Grex WAS are those who came later and
inherited Grex without contributing personal time and effort in
either its construction or governance.
What has typically been characterized in an us-them dichotomy as
Grexers versus M-Netters is really a dichotomy between "Old Grex"ers
and "New Grex"ers, or between those who built Grex, and took up care
and management of Grex to nurture it into adulthood and those who
moved in like a college frat into a beautiful old house and trashed
what was there (or created something new -- depending on your
viewpoint) simply because they could -- or didn't know any better...
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tod
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response 36 of 80:
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Sep 13 21:24 UTC 2004 |
The "Old Grex"ers are more like a frat, dipshit. I've been on Grex since its
inception and it was always plagued with xenophobic redtape. The ID rule
being one of those fine examples.
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cmcgee
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response 37 of 80:
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Sep 14 01:03 UTC 2004 |
And I'm a newcomer who felt like there was *no* us versus them mentality, and
dthat it was not that hard to be welcomed into the community.
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mooncat
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response 38 of 80:
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Sep 14 02:14 UTC 2004 |
Okay, I keep seeing this complaint about connectivity and reliability.
Can anyone tell me the last time Grex was down for any length of time
OTHER than the last couple weeks? We had two things happen closely
together- this doesn't make for a trend.
Tod, how is the ID rule xenophobic?
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ryan
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response 39 of 80:
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Sep 14 03:17 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
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mfp
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response 40 of 80:
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Sep 14 05:17 UTC 2004 |
Yeah. I'll probably give money now, but only 'cause now I've got a credit
card or two waiting for me at some bank or something somehwere and can send
money without hassle, even though I still don't like having to give my ID,
even though I've freely given out my name and address and probably even phone
number numerous times.
BAsically: fuck you.
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tod
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response 41 of 80:
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Sep 14 15:28 UTC 2004 |
re #38
Grex was down a bunch in May, wasn't it?
I find it a bit hypocritical that free speech is touted and even a blurb about
the ACLU actions are on the website, yet staff has deleted items and ID is
required for membership on an "open" system. Yes, its xenophobic. Anyone
that has observed the fiasco with popcorn's actions being condoned by Grex
would see how xenophobic it is. Common arguments "She is a friend of mine"
rather than "what is good for governance of actions on an open system".
Why is membership tied to "ill will"?
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twenex
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response 42 of 80:
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Sep 14 16:14 UTC 2004 |
It's not xenophobia, it's identity-theftophobia. And like murderophobia,
that's a good thing.
To be honest, I'm not sure where you get the idea that it has anything to do
with hatred of foreigners.
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tod
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response 43 of 80:
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Sep 14 17:43 UTC 2004 |
Locals are favored when the decision making processes ensue. Haven't you
noticed that by the board minutes?
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twenex
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response 44 of 80:
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Sep 14 19:41 UTC 2004 |
I find minutes boring; I don't read them. Apart from anything else, it's
usually bleeding obvious which among us are the foreigners and which are
the all-American baseball players with perfect teeth, so why should an
ID requirement make any diff whatsoever?
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mooncat
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response 45 of 80:
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Sep 14 21:14 UTC 2004 |
re #41- you do realize that as 'company' Grex has to be responsible, on
some level, for it's members?
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tod
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response 46 of 80:
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Sep 14 22:59 UTC 2004 |
re #45
Are you referring to the system being down so Members couldn't access it? ;)
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cyklone
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response 47 of 80:
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Sep 15 01:18 UTC 2004 |
I haven't noticed M-net's no ID needed policy causing any problems.
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mooncat
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response 48 of 80:
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Sep 15 12:30 UTC 2004 |
re 47- so you're saying that it never will cause problems?
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tod
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response 49 of 80:
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Sep 15 15:38 UTC 2004 |
re #48
We have a staff that keeps an eye on the system over at M-NET so problems
usually don't last long.
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