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25 new of 52 responses total.
anderyn
response 25 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 7 02:19 UTC 1998

Oooh, you're MEAN! (I am not good at guessing these things.)
Was given a mix CD for Christmas of Canadian bands. I am now lusting after
a whole CD by Captain Tractor. 

Am trying to put togehter a mix CD of my fave filk, since it's going to
be decaying soon (most of the filk I have is on over ten year old tapes, and
it's all oop. Bummer.) -- and I have a friend who has a CD burner. Now if I
can only get together with him....
lumen
response 26 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 7 02:24 UTC 1998

Wow.  I can't get use of a CD burner out here, although there is a used
music store back in Richland (Eastern WA, that is) nearby where I live that
might be patient enough to do mixes.

Now-- what are minidisc recorders capable of?  Are they still just a little
too expensive?
eeyore
response 27 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 7 06:15 UTC 1998

I LOVE doing mixed tapes...and it's fun looking at peoples expressions when
I do things like have Billie Holliday followed by Meatloaf...Duke Ellington,
Jewel, and Disney all in a row....:)
mcnally
response 28 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 7 07:02 UTC 1998

 re #26:  Minidisc players have suddenly gotten a *lot* cheaper in the past
 six months or so..  They're actually semi-reasonably priced these days,
 though I still don't think I'd want one..
scott
response 29 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 7 12:24 UTC 1998

Yeah, I've been mulling over buying a Minidisc deck.  The console decks are
now less than $400, media $5-7.  A few months ago Big George's had a package
with a record/play console deck and a walkman player for about $450.  

I'm slightly more interested in DAT, which starts at about $750.  :(
raven
response 30 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 7 17:21 UTC 1998

Doesn't minidisc use a compression system that causes the sound quality to
degrade when it's recorded, something along the lines of mpeg?
goose
response 31 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 7 20:21 UTC 1998

Yep, it's called ADTRAC.  The first versions of ADTRAC *sucked*.  It's much
better now, and even with the lossy compression MD is a *ton* better than
cassette.  
scott
response 32 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 7 21:00 UTC 1998

Which is why I'm still liking DAT over MiniDisc... Cassette is good enough
for a lot of things, and at $2-3 (or less) media cost, pretty damn cheap
to use.
lumen
response 33 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 01:38 UTC 1998

DAT is the same technology that was being labeled DCC, right?  Professional
both in the computing and music industry love DAT players because they make
great backups, and they are a superb tool in the mastering process.  For
example, DAT players make sampling real audio clean and easy.  But if I
understand things correctly, DAT cassettes aren't usually used as a permanent
recording.  Now somebody might have to explain to me how DAT players and DCC
players are different.  DCC can play digital and analog tapes, but does DAT
follow the same format?  Both are subject to the same wear and tear that
regular cassette tapes are, so even if cassettes are cheaper, I think the
masses decided that CDs were worth paying for, even if DCC's were made
cheaper.  So that meant for the public, DCC players were of little value. 
Why drive down the price of a DCC when CD players are just as viable and are
cheaper now?

Enter MiniDisc-- as was said, the public has wanted to have some advantages
of CDs, and some flexibility that only cassette had previously offered. 
Again, it is marketed to the *listening* public.  Sure, they are recordable,
but that's not their ultimate use.  Again, DATs are used by programming
companies, studios, and folks who demand the same temporary needs.
(is that close?)
scott
response 34 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 01:56 UTC 1998

DAT is *not* DCC.

DAT is like a little tiny VCR system, very high density, linear 16 bit digital
recording.  These are used for mastering on the not-top-end, since they are
CD quality with no data compression tricks.

DCC was a failed compromise format.  The shell is a cassette size, and some
compression is used.  

DAT is still expensive because of the mechanical complexity, with spinning
heads just like your VCR, only on a smaller scale.

MiniDisc has a cheaper mechanism, more like a disk drive, and the resulting
lower data density requires cheating, ie data compression.  Unlike the kind
of compression used on a PC, this type of compression is "lossy", gaining a
much higher compression ratio in return for some permanent data loss.  The
compression algorithm is intended to make the loss inaudible by taking
advantage of audio data characteristics, but it can't be perfect.

Actually, DAT may well be used for mastering at the top end.  I'm not that
up to date on the subject.

(one other advantage of DAT/MiniDisc:  since walkman-type recorders are
available, you can do digital field recordings with little lugging of
hardware.  DAT is especially great for compiling live albums, since the deck
is small and the media is cheap so an artist can record every concert in a
tour with clean digital recording but minimal fuss and expense.)

One application some professionals like Minidisc for is DJ work or solo
musician backing tracks, due to the random access capability DAT lacks.  (DAT
can search out index marks, but it takes time)  Minidisc audio quality is fine
for those situations.
goose
response 35 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 04:59 UTC 1998

DAT is used all over both ends for mastering.  Although in the big mastering
houses 1/2" analogue at 15ips with Dolby SR is still king.  THe problem with
DATs (and this could be true for MD, i don't know) is that they self-erase
in 20 or so years.  Worthless for archiving.  Gotta love that Ampex 641 tape.
mcnally
response 36 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 8 06:09 UTC 1998

  DAT would have, could have, should have been a great recording format,
  the kind that would've crippled cassette tapes the way CDs crippled LPs
  as a popular format.  Unfortunately the record companies did a remarkably
  good job of using fear, uncertainty, doubt, and the threat of legal actions
  to stifle the adoption of DAT as a common standard and so today it largely
  remains the domain of demanding niche users like recording technicians and
  audio fanatics.
goose
response 37 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 01:11 UTC 1998

Yep, although I've nearly sworn off DAT at a viable format.  Just too many
little things to go wrong.  I've been using my 1/4" analogue open-reel machine
a lot more lately. (until I broke a couple springs that is....damn)

Anyone know of a good source for small springs?
lumen
response 38 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 03:01 UTC 1998

re #34-36: Much better said-- I was hoping to learn something.
mcnally
response 39 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 06:28 UTC 1998

 re #37:  My experience with DAT is primarily backing up computer data
 but you're right -- the mechanical reliability of the tape mechanisms
 leave a lot to be desired..  Unfortunately DLTs are a little chunky to
 haul around with you..  :-)
snowth
response 40 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 12 01:32 UTC 1998

Re:17 (Yeah, I know. Way back there) Not a sane person, eh? ... Yeah, I guess
you could describe her like that. :)
orinoco
response 41 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 03:19 UTC 1998

Yep.
mcnally
response 42 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jun 12 02:47 UTC 1998

  So I finally took the plunge this week and ordered a CD-R burner..
  I knew I'd succumb eventually after I fell for a rebate offer at
  Staples through which I got 20 blanks for basically sales tax and
  a stamp (the rebate offer covered the full purchase price..)  
  "Sounds like a good idea," I said, "they're almost totally free and
  they might come in handy.  I don't *have* to buy anything.."

  Now a few months later, my willpower exhausted and temporarily flush
  with money from some recent consulting work, I succumbed to temptation --
  one of my friends pushed me over the edge by telling me about a deal
  on a refurbished CD-R drive ($150 for a 2x/4x SCSI CD-R burner with
  mastering software, check the red tag specials area at Turtle Beach's
  web site, www.tbeach.com, if interested, or wait for me to have a chance
  to try it out, after which I'll enter a review)

  I'll have to see how well it works before recommending anything but I
  am looking forward to the ability to make my own CDs -- in particular
  I've got a number of well-loved albums that are hard (or impossible)
  to find these days and making archival copies of those will be a high
  priority.  Another big thing for me will be arranging collections of
  preferred artists in more convenient forms, there are a couple of 
  musical genres I collect (especially old-style ska and classic-period
  dub) where many of the recordings I've been able to find are multi-artist 
  anthologies so the work of some of my favorite artists is scattered
  across ten or twelve discs..
krj
response 43 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jun 14 18:21 UTC 1998

I see Philips now advertising CD recorders on television.
The RIAA must be feeling really glum right around now.
cloud
response 44 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jun 15 14:03 UTC 1998

Who are the RIAA?
krj
response 45 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jun 15 17:20 UTC 1998

RIAA is the Record Industry Association of America, the trade group for the 
record labels.
cloud
response 46 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jun 16 02:24 UTC 1998

Are they the guys who set CD prices?  What do they do?
mcnally
response 47 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jun 16 03:18 UTC 1998

  They're the ones who send goons around to your business if you're
  thinking of making a product that records with a sound quality any
  greater than the classic two-styrofoam-cups-and-a-piece-of-string
  "telephones" you might've made as a very small child..
cloud
response 48 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jun 16 04:06 UTC 1998

Yikes.  I never knew.  Funnything is, I could never get those cup and string
things to work. Sound quality was nil.  Hmm.  Why are they so uptight about
it? (I know that I'm asking a lot of questions, but it always seemed like the
best way to find out about stuff.)
mcnally
response 49 of 52: Mark Unseen   Jun 16 17:13 UTC 1998

  Well, I might be exaggerating a *bit*..  The thing is there's a lot of
  money in the recording industry and the industry executives have concluded
  that the best way to make more money is to sell CDs for a lot more money
  rather than sell a lot more CDs for less money..  They may be right --
  I'm sure they know more about it than I ever will but even to me it seems
  that a recording has a certain natural market and that reducing price
  below a certain level won't greatly increase sales outside that market.
  However, while prices for CDs and cassettes go higher and higher the
  danger of losing sales to piracy, made attractive by improved technology
  and lower and lower equipment costs, continually increases.  Rather than
  alleviate this pressure by lowering their prices somewhat the record
  companies have tried instead to squash the technology.  They were quite
  successful in doing so with digital audio tape (DAT).  Though popular 
  among recording engineers and audio technophiles, DAT never achieved
  the popularity it deserved as a consumer format because the record
  companies managed to intimidate the DAT-makers for long enough that the
  format missed its chance.  However, I don't think they foresaw the rise
  of the CD-ROM and the arrival of affordable recordable CD drives, which
  had too much momentum for them to quash the way they did DAT..
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