response 25 of 61:

Sep 11 13:00 UTC 1998

Misti, the calipers measure the distance between the two sides of a fold of
skin-fat-skin hanging from your upper arm.  Loose skin is the same thickness
as tight skin and will not affect measurements, even though it may make your
arm look larger.  I am curious - after weight loss does the skin eventually
shrink to fit?
        An example of how weight is controlled genetically:  I have a wedding
photo of my father's parents.  My father, and his father, were about my size,
under 5 feet 6 inches and skinny.  So were his three brothers, who all had
thin wives and thin children.  My father's mother was probably about 300
pounds in the photo and remained that way until her death (at about age 70
of complications of diabetes, I think).  So were her three daughters, and the
husbands and children of the two larger of them.  It could not have been
environmental as they were all eating the same way (my father's siblings,
anyway).  I don't know if his sisters married heavy men, I was not around at
the time, but both members of the couple were large when I knew them, and one
of my cousins has been described as round in all directions.  (He married a
thin wife who stayed relatively thin).
        My father's sisters' male children were fat, my father's brothers
        female
children thin.  I cannot figure out the genetics of this.
        There is also definitely an environmental effect, as Jim's thin
daughter found out when she started cooking for and eating with a husband
whose mother is fat and who refuses to eat vegetables.  (She never liked
vegetables either).  Meat and pastries can put the pounds on.

response 27 of 61:

Sep 11 21:06 UTC 1998

From a book on back exercises:

The Overweight Person with Back Pain
        Obesity, a condition in which a person is 20 percent of more above his
or her ideal weight, is inconvent, unhealthy, and psychologically destructive.
Obesity is associated with an increased risk of high blood pressure, heart
disease, stroke, hardening of the arteries, and diabetes.
        ...excess weight in the abdominal area pulls the belly forward and can
cause the pelvis to tip forward, shortening the psoas and causing strain in
teh lower back.
        Overweight people generally are not as mobile as their more fit peers,
and when they exercise, their excess poundage can put extreme stress on their
joings.  To protect the joints, increase mobility and fitness, and burn fat,
I recommend a low-impact form of aerobic activity.
        
        I will let Misti point out the unspoken assumptions in the above, as
well as comment on the spoken assumption that overweight people are less
active than average.

The book recommends walking up stairs instead of using an elevator, 'carry
your groceries rather than have them delivered' (does anyone still deliver?),
walk to work, park at the far end of the parking lot, and do lots of exercises
while waiting in line or talking on the phone.
Jim suggests digging in the garden and shoveling snow.

response 29 of 61:

Sep 11 21:37 UTC 1998

OK, John, I finally found a definition for fatness and obesity on the U of
Chicago web site.

* Fat is defined as a body mass index 25 or above.
* Obesity is defined as a body mass index 40 or above.

response 31 of 61:

Sep 14 00:14 UTC 1998

Re resp:29 - I'm aware of the BMI-based definitions of "overweight"
and "obese", and suspect that they're too simplistic for some of the
same reasons that you do. I guess what I was really asking was this:
What are the definitions of "fat women" and "fat people" in the
context of your statement in resp:10 -

 "Did you know that fat actually protects people from certain diseases?  That's
  not a widely diseminated piece of information but it's true.  Among the
  protections that fat offers:  fat women are far less likely to develop
  osteoporosis.  Fat people who get cancer or tuberculosis are far more likely
  to recover and go on to live healthy lives.  There are others, but I'd have
  to look them up."

What is the source of this information, and what definition of "fat" is
being used there?

response 33 of 61:

Sep 14 21:33 UTC 1998

John, have you looked at the web pages I posted the URLs for?  Have you looked
at the book I suggested?

Many of the reports I've read have defined "fat" and "obesity", but I'm afraid
that I don't have the URLs or papers available right now.  I know that BFL
also defines then for many of the studies it reviews, but my copy is in a box
somewhere right now.  Threfore I can only say that you have to look at
particular studies for specific definitions -- but I have been well over the
the threshold in all of the studies I've read.  (5'3" 300 lbs. -- I read most
of them before "the metamorphosis" began.)

Sindi,  you're right.  I've never claimed that fat in the face of a poor diet
and no exercise protects anyone from anything.  Only when combined with
adequate nutrition and exercise does a little padding provide any benefits.
I suspect that had her genes been different your aunt would have been slim
and still died of colon cancer -- her diet sounds like a nightmare!  All that
fat is definitely an invitation to trouble.

The definition of fit is a lot easier to find.  The standard I've heard for
"fitness" is the ability to attain and maintain one's "target heart rate" for
10 minutes comfortably -- still able to speak without gasping, no pain, etc.)
Now someone is going to ask me to define a target heart rate, right?  ;)  I'm
not sure how to calculate it, but I hve a hunch that Scott might...

response 35 of 61:

Sep 15 10:57 UTC 1998

(Actually, I don't have a target heart rate formula on tap, though I'm going
to guess it is 185-age, or something like that.  I'm not very scientific about
training, actually.)

response 37 of 61:

Sep 15 19:58 UTC 1998

OK.  ;)  It's not that I don't want to answer your questions,it's just that
there's too much information out there for me to try to retype it all here.

(Also, I'm not a very good debater.  I read critically enough, but I have a
memory like a stainless steele seive and tend to remember only the gist of
what I've read -- and, if I'm lucky-- where I read it.)

response 39 of 61:

Sep 17 20:32 UTC 1998

Try eating something bulky when you are hungry, such as fruit.

response 41 of 61:

Sep 18 00:35 UTC 1998

Brown rice and whole grain bread are also filling.  Maybe the fruit sugar
bothers you, Misti.  If you eat something with fiber and water, including
oatmeal and potatoes (without butter) your stomach fills up and you don't feel
so hungry (for a while, anyway). 

response 43 of 61:

Sep 22 15:10 UTC 1998

I don't think fat delays carbohydrate release, but it takes longer to digest
and thus lengthens the period in which your blood sugar is high enough. 
Protein also takes longer to digest that starch.

response 45 of 61:

Sep 24 03:42 UTC 1998

i love rice, fruit, etc. However I seem to function best on a high 
protein diet. How do I get protein besides meat and beans?

response 47 of 61:

Sep 24 14:15 UTC 1998

Grains and vegetables also have protein.  Try a balanced diet without refined
foods (which tend not to have much protein) such as white flour or white rice
or white sugar.

response 49 of 61:

Sep 27 05:14 UTC 1998

I have heard the Zone is good for hypoglycemics. Is it a vegetarian 
diet?

BTW, eggs are out of the question, I hate them.