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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 57 responses total. |
janc
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response 25 of 57:
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Jan 1 18:48 UTC 2001 |
Until they actually express an interest, we don't need to get too worked up
over the details.
The way I see it, the relationship is something like a normal ISP/Client
relationship, not very different than the relationship they have with the
company that currently provides their conferences. The only difference is
that Grex's policymaking is an open enough process that they'd be able to get
involved if they wanted.
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other
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response 26 of 57:
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Jan 1 19:08 UTC 2001 |
It is exactly that point that concerns me. If we bring EMinds aboard as
a separate entity, but with its members having equal part in CCI's
governance, then we effectively create the potential for competition for
limited resources between Grex and EMinds.
This may not be what comes to pass, but I feel strongly that we should be
aware of the potential, and take into account how we might deal with it
in proceeding on this.
It is not my intention to be alarmist, but I think it is my
responsibility to point out this concern and see that it is addressed.
Until they do express interest in the idea, we are under no obligation to
work out the details, but keep in mind that there is a deadline of 31
January by which to implement whatever change is required to provide
EMinds a continuity of service, so if we are serious about making the
offer, we should be prepared to follow it up in a timely fashion.
Putting the extra thought into exploring these concerns now will pay off
if and when we proceed.
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other
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response 27 of 57:
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Jan 1 19:22 UTC 2001 |
I do not know what EMinds has for revenue at present, but if we host it,
then it might be reasonable to assume some additional revenue to CCI as a
result. This would lessen the constraint on the resources available to
provide the hosting service. We could expand our bandwidth, possibly
even enough to supplement our graphics serving capacity sufficiently to
support EMinds' present look-and-feel.
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other
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response 28 of 57:
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Jan 1 19:33 UTC 2001 |
By the way, the new user registration functionality on their sign-in page
has been commented out.
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swa
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response 29 of 57:
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Jan 1 21:20 UTC 2001 |
Can we either link this discussion to agora or put something in the MOTD
about it? It's a fairly important discussion, and not everyone will
stumble across it here.
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janc
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response 30 of 57:
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Jan 2 18:48 UTC 2001 |
I think this is only about 2% likely to happen. If I get any hint from them
that this is more than a hypothetical scenario, then I agree that we need to
broaden the discussion. Till then, not really.
I don't get Eric's point. Suppose some users showed up at our door asked for
some conferences in Co-op, got them, and proceeded to use them. Would we be
worried that they were competing for resources with Grex? No. We'd be
delighted that a group of people were putting Grex's resources to exactly the
use the were intended for.
Or suppose Eminds comes here and use up disk space and bandwidth with their
conferences, but donate little or no money to Grex. Again, so what? We've
already got 20,000 email users using much more bandwidth and connectivity than
40 or 50 EMinds users would, and donating virtually no money. We're a
charitable organization. This is what we do. And conferencing is more
strongly in line with our mission than Email is.
The only really scarce resource that EMinds might compete for is staff time,
mainly mine, since most of what they'd need would be conference web interface
customization, and archival discussion importation, and that would be my
ballywhack mostly. But the allocation of my time is for me to decide, not
for Grex to decide.
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jep
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response 31 of 57:
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Jan 2 21:59 UTC 2001 |
What I see is a further drain on Grex's most limited resource, Internet
bandwidth. It's nice to offer them free space, but it's not much less
nice to ask them to integrate with Grex and become part of the existing
community.
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carson
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response 32 of 57:
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Jan 2 22:51 UTC 2001 |
resp:30
(I think what Eric is getting at is if the EMinds people *do* donate money,
and in large[r] numbers. certainly a perplexing conundrum of possibilities.)
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gull
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response 33 of 57:
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Jan 3 01:49 UTC 2001 |
I think someone was talking about giving them "seperate governance," though.
Wouldn't that lead to conflicts with the Grex board? The idea of having an
ISP sort of relationship worries me, too...we don't want to get in a
situation where we're legally obligated to do things we might not have the
resources to do.
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other
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response 34 of 57:
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Jan 3 02:21 UTC 2001 |
Hi Eric
I am sorry to say that Webb is not allowing any new account creation at
this time. You are free to read the goings on but can not post without an
account. The best topic to keep tabs on that is called "The History of
Electric Minds" and it is located in the Commons discussion area.
At this time it looks like we have no need of a new home as our previous
owner has made plans to create a new home for us after Webb.net closes
down in February. At that time our membership doors will be open again.
In the meantime I am fully qualified as community host to receive and
convey any input or offers you may want to make via email. I have all
ready spoken with Jan about the grex platform a bit and have his contact
info in my files as well.
At this time I do not think we will be looking for a new home but your
offer is certainly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Harry Pike
Community Host/Host Manager
Electric Minds
http://www.minds.com
[I could not find the way to even read their conferences without signing
in.]
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janc
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response 35 of 57:
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Jan 3 05:56 UTC 2001 |
I can't seem to get in to post either. After I log in, it hangs a long time,
then I get some sort of Microsoft error message.
Harry Pike seems to be the guy in charge, and as you can see, he's not wild
about the Grex option, so I think this is unlikely to bear any fruit.
Personally I have a hard time imagining a better deal for them long-term than
Grex, but different strokes....
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dpc
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response 36 of 57:
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Jan 3 15:11 UTC 2001 |
I like the accommodating these folks if the need should arise.
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richard
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response 37 of 57:
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Jan 10 02:40 UTC 2001 |
well if that doesnt work, the same idea could be applied if mnet goes under
this year..grex could host or offer to host mnet's conferences
keep the place alive, sorta
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keesan
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response 38 of 57:
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Jan 10 03:13 UTC 2001 |
Were you alive last summer, Richard? Does grex get a choice?
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janc
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response 39 of 57:
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Jan 20 06:50 UTC 2001 |
Small update: Eminds is going to buy their own server, and write their
own conferencing software.
However their current home vanishes at the end of the month, and they
think they might be off line for a month. I've suggested that Grex
might be able to host them on a temporary basis, while they build their
new digs. In this scenario, I'd be thinking of a separate installation
of Backtalk, with it's own login space and conferences completely
isolated from Grex. If you didn't look in the browser's URL box,
there'd be no way to tell you were on Grex.
I'd be surprised if they were interested in this, but in case they are
I'm wondering if anyone would feel this would be inappropriate.
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mary
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response 40 of 57:
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Jan 20 13:51 UTC 2001 |
In the first scenario the Eminds folks were going to be plopped
into our world, in terms of policies. In this new proposal we'd
be essentially allowing them use of our system with their rules
for their system. I guess I'd just want to make sure that
their "rules" abide by our standards. Do they censor text for
content? Are all comers welcome? Do paying members get better
treatment than non-paying members?
I guess I'd like to know a little bit about Eminds before
endorsing their using our site in the way now being proposed.
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albaugh
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response 41 of 57:
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Jan 20 17:36 UTC 2001 |
My first reaction is that I wouldn't be in favor of a separate group not
interested in grex in the least, just borrowing some of grex's hardware.
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gull
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response 42 of 57:
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Jan 20 19:47 UTC 2001 |
Yeah, me either. How would this benefit the Grex community? They'd
basically be freeloading off our hardware, while maintaining their own
seperate enclave.
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keesan
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response 43 of 57:
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Jan 20 20:33 UTC 2001 |
Would it be simpler just to offer them a conference of their own in which to
talk about how to rebuild their system? That way grexers could also be part
of things.
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eeyore
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response 44 of 57:
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Jan 21 08:05 UTC 2001 |
Bascially, since it would be a very short-term thing, I have no issues with
them borrowing our stuff to stay alive for a month or so. I really don't
think, though, that we need to set up a ton of rules and regulations, really,
since it's not permenant.
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janc
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response 45 of 57:
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Jan 21 16:41 UTC 2001 |
That was my feeling. It's another non-profit, public access
conferencing system, full of nice people, in slightly desparate
straights. We could host them for a month just because it's a civil
thing to do, not because it benefits up, and we could do it without
trying to force them into turning into "Grex II" by working according to
our rules or with our input. The resources needed would be
inconsequential to Grex. We'd never know they were there.
As it happens, they still aren't interested. They have a single closed
conference on Utne that they'd rather use as a lifeboat. I think we
could have offered a better option, but they have to make their own
decisions their own way.
So I think we can now definitively say, nothing is going to happen.
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mary
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response 46 of 57:
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Jan 21 21:43 UTC 2001 |
I don't really think anyone was stipulating they be "Grex II" before we'd
help out. What I was suggesting is we get to know a little more about
their system and their way of doing things before we offered to sponsor
them. I would hope the answers would have left the membership feeling
good about voting to help the out.
I'm pleased to hear they have a plan. But I'd still be interested
in logging in to eminds and seeing for myself what their system is
all about. Are they open at this point?
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slynne
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response 47 of 57:
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Jan 21 22:13 UTC 2001 |
So if Mnet gets closer to dying are you going to invite Mnetters over
here? *snort* Not that it matters.
Actually, I think that inviting eminds here is really nice. What do you
mean about checking our their way of doing things, mary?
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gull
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response 48 of 57:
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Jan 22 02:19 UTC 2001 |
Actually, that's a good question.
If mnet died, would we offer to create an entire seperate conferencing
system so mnetters could have their conferences without having to deal
with us? If not, why are we offering to do it for eminds?
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spooked
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response 49 of 57:
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Jan 22 02:44 UTC 2001 |
'cause emind'ers haven't tried to spoil our confs?
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