response 26 of 62:

Jul 9 04:27 UTC 1998

Again - life memberships are a *donation* to help insure the future of
the system. They are not a "risk". They *reduce* risk.

response 28 of 62:

Jul 9 05:56 UTC 1998

A lifetime membership could be handled two way:
  - invest it.  It will earn annual income which can be used to help run
    the system.
  - spend it.  Or rather, invest it in your own system, with the hopes that
    it will lead to a larger income base in the future.
Either method is sound.  $1200 today really can equal $60 a year forever,
if invested well.

I don't think I'd have a problem with lifetime memberships.  I think creating
them would require a bylaw amendment, which requires a membership vote.  Quite
a lot of trouble to go through to create a membership catagory that I think
would have no takers (well, could happen).

All I know about the donor is that they have asked to be anonymous.  Playing
guessing games is inappropriate.  The least we can do when someone gives us
a lot of money is to respect their request for anonymity.  Making guesses on
line as in #21 has the potential of putting the actual donor in a position
where they must either lie or have their anonymity compromised.  This is rude
in the extreme, so I decline to deny Richard's guess, even at risk of
encouraging people to believe that subtracting the cost of taxes, a house,
and a baby from the incomes of two part-time consultants leaves behind a lot
of spare cash.

response 30 of 62:

Jul 9 17:34 UTC 1998

I hereby propose:

        That the bylaws of Cyberspace Communications be amended to include a
        category of membership called "Lifetime Membership" with all rights,
        privileges and responsibilities being equal to that of a regular
        member, except that a "Lifetime Membership" cannot expire. The 
        cost of said "Lifetime Membership" shall be a multiple of the
        annual membership rate to be determined by a vote of the board of
        directors of Cyberspace Communications, and the dues revenue from
        such memberships shall be invested or included in the general fund
        as determined by the treasurer.


The reference to rights, privileges and responsibilities assures that in case
of abuse of the system, vandalism or other offensive action, Grex retains the
right to refund dues and eliminate an account, even though the membership
cannot expire.  Discussion?

response 32 of 62:

Jul 9 18:55 UTC 1998

I would like to see an example of how this money could be
invested to make 5% before considering a change in policy.

In order to get 5% in most investments you either have to
have a whole lot of money involved (jumbo accounts) or
a reasonable amount of money (thousands) tied up for
a long time.  Are there others ways to have a small amount
of money safe and returning 5% and yet available and managed
without a lot of fees?

response 34 of 62:

Jul 9 21:52 UTC 1998

#28...geez, all I was saying was that the person deserves
gratitude and compliments for buying a 10-year membership.,
I wasnt aware that buying such a membership was such an awful
thing that he/she wouldnt want anyone to know about it?

I bet grex would get more such memberships if it was 501(3)(c) and
they were tax-deductable.  Maynbe an incentive to go that route.

response 36 of 62:

Jul 10 06:15 UTC 1998

my point was really to formally create a life membership with the proviso that
the board, not the membership, determine the fee amount and the disposition
of the revenue.  that seemed appropriate to me.

response 38 of 62:

Jul 10 12:15 UTC 1998

Re #30: Eric, to make a bylaw amendment proposal "official", you
should enter it as a new item in the Coop conference. Then it can
discussed and ultimately voted on by the membership. See the
bylaws (item 2 in Coop) for details on how this works.

response 40 of 62:

Jul 10 19:39 UTC 1998

        Other than the paragraph or two that says 'thank you' here is
some of the wording I got in the letter from the Michigan Tech Fund:

This letter serves as your offical receipt for tax purposes; please save it
for your records.
Federal lax law requires us to inform you that Michigan Tech did not provide
you with any good or services in whole or in partial consideration for your
contribution.  YOur contribution is tax deductible for federal income tax.

        Regular membership/dues may be considered as receiving something
in return (voting rights, internet features) here on Grex.  I would guess
that only an outright donation (cash or say, auction items) would be
tax deductible.  It does seem right that the donation can have a 
purpose; be it hardware fund, general operations or silly hat fund.

        When I got my letter back from National Space Society, it 
stated that $10 of the $25 i sent was for my subscription to the
Ad Astra magazine, the remaining $15 is tax deductable.

        Looks like we need to gather up our collective experiences
with 501(c)3 types of organizations of all sizes to help Mark get a 
handle of how best to implement his systems for Cyberspace, INc.
        I would accept that Mark sent e-mail aknowledgment of donations
throughout the year, with a collectivsnail mail letter at year-end
to provide that paper record for tax purposes.  He should not have to 
spend time and 32 cents on each donation.

response 42 of 62:

Jul 11 04:05 UTC 1998

Dues in 501(c)3 non-profits are tax deductible unless something of significant
value is provided. An example of this is a magazine that is also sold on
the newstand. I will agree that this can gradate into a murky area. Examples
of what has and has not been allowed essentially define the law. I the
501(c)3 item I gave a URL for further information on what is deductible
and what is not, and what services do or do not have to be declared. Since
a members-only parking lot in the middle of New York City does not have
to be declared (value deducted from dues), the rules are pretty liberal.
I recall one of the criteria that if the service is *used frequently* by
members, it need not be declared. However if a free annual dinner were
awarded members, the value of that would have to be declared (i.e, subtracted
from the deduction).

response 44 of 62:

Jul 11 14:37 UTC 1998

i have a mutual fund account that seems to be paying about 25% per year...

response 46 of 62:

Jul 11 19:56 UTC 1998

Unless something's changed very recently, Vanguard is paying about 5.2%
on their money market fund with a $3K minimum.  800-662-6273,#,7#,30# 
should tell you the actual current yield.  (Or visit their web site, or
subtract about 29 basis points from the current AAA money rate, or...)  

Note:  they call it their "Prime Portfolio", but it bears *NO* resemblance 
to (far risker and less liquid) "Prime Rate" funds.

response 48 of 62:

Jul 12 06:14 UTC 1998

What's the interest rate?