response 25 of 66:

Oct 10 15:25 UTC 2003

Jack Chick is the author of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of really nasty
little evangelical Christian comic-book-style pamphlets which you used to
see everywhere, left in little stacks in phone booths and hotel lobbies
and so on.  Google on JACK CHICK for vast amounts of commentary, satire,
and even an official site.

response 27 of 66:

Oct 10 20:12 UTC 2003

If you're trying to get people to think favorably of something, France
probably isn't the best country to compare it to. ;>

response 29 of 66:

Oct 10 22:05 UTC 2003

The reasons I would have for taking catholicism to task (assuming I ever
bothered to do so) would be less concerned with centuries-old discontinued
practices and more concerned with head-in-the-sand current issues, such
as the "condoms don't prevent HIV transmission" stance mentioned previously
and the widespread practice of ignoring/permitting/abetting child
molestation by priests, which was exposed just a year or two ago.

response 31 of 66:

Oct 10 23:36 UTC 2003

<tries to bite lip, but misses> It may be accidental that they're spreading
propaganda with 0.1% truth to it?  
Sorry.  Couldn't resist.  They were claiming, as a blanket statement, that
condoms do not prevent HIV transmission.  No qualifications to it at all.
I'm not sure I've ever even seen a sheepskin condom for sale; I don't think
they make up a significant percentage of those available, although this 
may be different in less-developed countries.  I think they're made of
sheep intestine, anyway.  In fact, I'm a little grossed out at the literal
thought of a sheepskin condom.  Mmmm.  Woolly.

response 35 of 66:

Oct 15 16:21 UTC 2003

RE#26 -- Do you have a URL for that Ron Jeremy/Jack Chick thing?

response 39 of 66:

Oct 16 16:20 UTC 2003

<giggles at #38>
I think #36 is a pretty standard approach in many churches.  They've settled
on their interpretation of the Bible; they want you to go along with them
and not rock the boat with actual thought.  Hence my general disillusionment
with organized religion.  Faith in God is one thing; faith in someone that
read the Bible x hundred years ago and declared an arbitrary and 
absolute interpretation of it is another thing entirely.  I was really
surprised to read the Bible for the first time (specifically the Old
Testament) and see how different it was from church-recommended lifestyles.
In particular, I've always been puzzled as to why the Catholic church puts
so much emphasis on Mary, who all things considered was a fairly minor
player in the New Testament.

response 41 of 66:

Oct 16 19:33 UTC 2003

I guess there's a lot of anti-religious bigotry on Grex.

response 43 of 66:

Oct 16 22:58 UTC 2003

re resp:42: Sorry, Lynne, but I think there's unusual zeal for hatred 
of religion here on Grex.  I think that attitude is unreasoning, narrow 
minded and intolerant.  

response 45 of 66:

Oct 16 23:15 UTC 2003

The difference, jep, is that while many of us on Grex who reject religion 
also support the rights of others to hold religious beliefs we think are 
idiotic, bigotry has no place in it for such tolerance of other beliefs.

That is a major difference between religious and non-religious political 
movements in this country as well:  the religious movements tend to want 
to make laws which require everyone to be subjected to their religious 
beliefs, while the non-religious tend to want to make laws which only 
prohibit the religious from subjecting the non-religious to religious 
beliefs.

response 47 of 66:

Oct 17 14:53 UTC 2003

re 45:  Exactly.  I don't subscribe to organized religion myself, and I 
enjoy discussing and/or arguing about the subject.  But I fully support
your right, and every other person's right, to worship at a Lutheran,
Methodist, or Catholic church, a Jewish synagogue, a Muslim mosque, at
the Church of the Big Green Potato with Little Purple Spots.  Or wherever
else you want to worship.  I also support my right to disagree with these
religions, and to talk about why.  Apparently, jep does not support my
right to hold and discuss different opinions than his--in my estimation,
this makes him something of a bigot.  

response 49 of 66:

Oct 17 16:14 UTC 2003

re #46:  I can't speak for a majority of american catholic churches/priests,
but in the church I grew up in, there was a strong message that thinking about
the bible for yourself was frowned upon.  Nobody said that you couldn't do
it, that it was a sin oranything like that, just that you were likely to come
to incorrect conclusions if you did not base your biblical studies on the
official catholic interpretation, and therefore it was better not to study
independently.  I wish I had access to some actual quotations; the best I can
do is paraphrase, like this:  "Because of Catholic doctrine, you don't have
to struggle with interpretation of scripture, because the Church provides the
correct answers for you."  It was very much a case of "you can have any color
you want, so long as it's black."