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25 new of 107 responses total.
bru
response 25 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 00:44 UTC 2003

Recently heard that the husband also refuseto allow the Catholic church to
administera final communion for fear she might be able to swallow showing she
could be trained to eat without the tube.
mcnally
response 26 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 01:03 UTC 2003

  Heard where?
drew
response 27 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 01:22 UTC 2003

There is no more Terri Schiavo. She's dead. There is only an animated corpse.
She is effectively undead.
klg
response 28 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 02:08 UTC 2003

re:  "#17 (richard): . . . It isn't the doctors stopping this, but all 
those medical experts in the Florida legislature who passed that bill 
and Jeb Bush who signed it."

Believing this to be merely a medical issue for the determination is 
being much too simplistic.


re:  "#20 (slynne):   I agree that it is appropriate to bring the courts 
into this. However, the courts *have* decided."

Does not the United States' government and those of its component states 
consist of 3 equal branches?  If so, then how-so is it appropriate for 
the one to be granted the power to trump the other two??  Does that not 
deny the premise upon which the governments of our nation was 
established???
gull
response 29 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 02:18 UTC 2003

I think mostly what bothers me about all this is I always feel a little
uncomfortable about laws being passed that are targeted at one specific
person.  I don't think it makes for good legislation.
richard
response 30 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 03:52 UTC 2003

The husband was on Larry King tonight, and seemed sincere enough.  It turns
out that he is a health care official, a registered nurse.  He also claims
it is misinformation that he will in any way benefit from his wife's death.
He claims that in fact he turned down a large settlement offer from people
acting on the family's behalf (right to life groups) to turn guardianship over
to the parents and walk away.  He claims he wouldn't and won't do this because
he wants to honor his wife's wishes and she told him she would not want to
keep living in such a situation.  The husband in fact claims that he got along
with the parents until he got a $300,000 settlement for "loss of consortium"
and the father demanded that they get a cut of that money.  He claims the fa
ther holds a grudge because he didn't cut him in on the settlment, due to
having to pay lawyers and taxes and .etc

He spoke emotionally of trying to protect his wife's dignity, and how upset
he was that the parents released photos and film of her in this state, as he
knows his wife would never have wanted anybody to see her in this condition.

The husband's lawyer, who was also on the show, pointed out that if the law
passed to keep her alive is upheld, it sets a really bad precedent.  It will
say that the governor and lawmakers can decide treatent for a sick patient,
or overrule treatment agreed upon by the patient's family/guardians and the
patients doctors.  

The husband claims that he has received death threats (which he surely has)
and knows he could just sign over guardianship and walk away.  But he is
determined to honor his wife's wishes and is spending himself in debt paying
lawyers (he claims there is very little money left from the court settlement
and that he won't see another penny whether she dies or not)  
other
response 31 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 06:39 UTC 2003

Sob story.  Frankly, I see no reason why what he and his lawyer say to 
Larry King should have any influence in the matter.  This is a case for 
the Doctors and the courts.

By the way, klg, your comment in #28 is reflective of your massive 
failure to understand the concept of "Balance of Power" between the three 
branches of government.  The courts exist to function as a check on the 
exercise of power by the legislative and executive branches.  The courts 
are the final arbiter of constitutionality.  In these roles their precise 
function is to "trump the other two" branches, as you so elegantly put 
it.  Maybe you should go back and take that high school civics class 
again.
richard
response 32 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 06:47 UTC 2003

yeah but thanks to governor bush and the legislature, this isn't a case for
the doctors and the courts any longer.  It is a case for the politicians. 
Politicians deem themselves worthy of overruling doctor's recommendations
mcnally
response 33 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 07:27 UTC 2003

  Bad cases make bad laws..
richard
response 34 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 08:03 UTC 2003

There is NEVER a case that justifies a bad law being passed. I hope that
this one is overturned by the florida supreme court as unconstitutional

gull
response 35 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 14:12 UTC 2003

This is a trend lately.  First we have Congress deciding, with no input from
the medical profession, that certain types of abortion are "never medically
necessary." Now we have Jeb Bush deciding that the medical establishment is
wrong about a woman's chances for recovery.  <sarcasm>Why do we need doctors
when our politicians are so clearly more knowledgable?</sarcasm>
other
response 36 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 14:31 UTC 2003

The interesting (and ironic) thing here is that even if this law does 
what it is intended to do, it will only effectively prolong her life long 
enough for a federal court to overturn it, even more firmly establishing 
the precedent.
mynxcat
response 37 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 15:16 UTC 2003

What I find interesting is that it took the husband 10 years to 
finally "honor his wife's wishes". Looks to me, he just wants to get 
out of the marriage at this point, and get on with his life. Nothing 
wrong with that. But it is a bit suspicious that he'd wait this long 
and suddenly start harping about what his wife wanted done in such a 
situation.

I feel sorry for Terri, if she can comprehend what's going on. To know 
that people are making a decision about your life that you may not 
agree with and cannot communicate your feelings must be scary. Of 
course, I don't know whether she is in a vegetative state or not. 
Seems that the doctors can't seem to agree.

It's sad that this whole episode had to be raked through the mud. 
Terri deserves some sort of dignity, either while she lives or in her 
death.
jp2
response 38 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 15:28 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

klg
response 39 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 17:29 UTC 2003

re 31:  By the way, Mr. other, your comment reflects the results of 
massive brain-washing you have received in third grade to the effect 
that the judicial branch of government occupies a position that is 
superior to the other two "equal" branches.  You (presumably) are a big 
boy now.  It would behoove you to think independently and consider 
whether it makes any sense that such an arrangement was, indeed, the 
intentions of the founders.


Mr. richard,
Perhaps you might point out to us where the law provides it to be a 
doctor's prerogative to determine who shall live and who shall die.
Thank you.
klg
slynne
response 40 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 17:51 UTC 2003

Ah. That is the heart of the question isnt it klg. Who gets to decide 
who gets what medical treatment and who doesnt. Is it ok for a doctor 
to decide to withhold treatment or can only a legislature decide? 
klg
response 41 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 17:55 UTC 2003

Certainly not, miss.
In our society neither has that authority.  It is the decision of the 
individual.
rcurl
response 42 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 18:06 UTC 2003

It is certainly true that "the judicial branch of government occupies a
position that is superior to the other two 'equal' branches" in regard to
interpreting the law. However the other branches can initiate changes in
the law, though with some difficulty, that will reverse the judicial
branches' decisions. So, ultimately, there is a "balance of powers". 

remmers
response 43 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 18:30 UTC 2003

Yep.
gull
response 44 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 18:32 UTC 2003

Actually, the question put before the courts was whether the husband or
the family had the right to make the decision.  The courts ruled in
favor of the husband.  The legislature apparently decided that,
ultimately, it was the state governor's job to decide.
richard
response 45 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 18:54 UTC 2003

klg, the courts ruled that the individual did in fact make the decision.  The
husband and two other friends of this woman testified under oath that she had
made it clear to them back when she was healthy that were she ever in suh a
situation, she would want to die.  The court tried to honor her wishes.  The
parents admit she never talked to the about her views on this, but the parents
view is that the husband and her two friends are lying.  There is no way to
be 100% sure what the choice of the individual is of course, but in this case
there were three people close to her that swore that this was her view.

I do not think keeping her body alive is the dignified thing to do.  The
husband's lawyer showed the CAT scans of her head on tv.  There isn't much
of her brain left.  She's a body now.  How would you like it if your body was
still alive after you, everything you are, had died, and people paraded your
body on tv and dressed you up and wanted to act like you are still there. 
The husband makes clear that he will get no insurance, no money whatsoever
from her death, and he has gotten death threats and turned down large money
offers to walk away.  But he wants to honor his wife's wishes and see her die
with dignity.

Also starving to death for such an ill body is nowhere near the same as
starving a healthy body.  The organs are already greaty diminished.  The bones
are brittle.  The body does't want to eat in that situation, it rejects food.
That is why they have to FORCE feed.  She'd die within a couple of days at
most if the tube was taken out.  It is the humane thing to do.  
slynne
response 46 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 19:01 UTC 2003

Richard, you do know that they had that tube out for over a week and 
she didnt die. 
tod
response 47 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 19:49 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

happyboy
response 48 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 20:23 UTC 2003

re25: HEARD WHERE?  ANSWER THE QUESTION.
klg
response 49 of 107: Mark Unseen   Oct 28 20:26 UTC 2003

Somewhat correct, Mr. rcurl.  Is it not the case that in addition to 
legal interpretation that the courts also (1) create new laws (i.e., 
leglislate) and (2) order the enforcement of its decisions (i.e., 
execute).  So, they regularly step above and beyond what one would 
presume to be their constitutionally defined mandate.

Mr. richard,
It appears that the duly elected legislators of the state of Florida do 
not give the same creedence to the testimony of the husband that you 
do.  Additionally, as duly elected officials, they have somewhat more 
standing in this case than you.  Finally, why do you equate tube 
feeding with "FORCE" feeding, which it is not?
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