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Grex > Agora46 > #63: A nation of "trailer park trash": a good thing? | |
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russ
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response 25 of 72:
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Jul 8 01:33 UTC 2003 |
I find it most amusing that md not only didn't answer the question (why
it would be a good thing, since he does profess to get along with
everybody and he didn't say why a nation of "trailer trash" would please
him more than some alternative), but he tried to shut me down by
ascribing the question to a bad mood.
He did that while knowing that the same question occured to at least one
other person, too... hmmm, cheap rhetorical trick *and* begging the
question, not like him at all. (Must've caught him in a bad mood. ;-)
If you must know, Michael, the question was prompted by a desire to know
if I'd somehow missed a virtue of "trailer trash" culture that is good or
even necessary for the nation, and the potential for discussion of that
versus the negatives. (The un-stated question is why you describe them
as "trailer trash" when you talk about them like they're the salt of the
earth.) I phrased the question as I did because I didn't want to
prejudice your response and take away any enlightenment value by forcing
you to think about defending your thesis a priori. When you're actually
willing to state what you meant, I'll continue.
Re #14: Bruce, I specifically eliminated any reference to abortion from
the text of this item. Can't you take a hint?
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md
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response 26 of 72:
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Jul 8 11:27 UTC 2003 |
Be honest, Russ. a) You don't find any of this amusing in the least.
We can practically see your hands shaking. b) Not only am I willing to
state what I meant, I did state what I meant.
Speaking of honesty, in answer to your "unstated question": "trailer
trash" is what everybody calls them, including them. If the phrase is
a provocative one, it is so in relation to the prejudices of the
listener. You know where I stand. Now we know where you stand. Why
do you have to ask whether they have any virtues that you "somehow
missed"? What examination of the virtues of trailer trash have you
ever done that entitles you to say something like that?
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md
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response 27 of 72:
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Jul 8 11:28 UTC 2003 |
[Russ is in a worse mood than I thought. Maybe it was all that talk
recently about rats and mythago.]
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tod
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response 28 of 72:
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Jul 8 18:21 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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flem
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response 29 of 72:
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Jul 8 21:07 UTC 2003 |
Mmm, there's a threesome to give you nightmares. :)
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orinoco
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response 30 of 72:
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Jul 8 22:28 UTC 2003 |
<has nightmares>
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slynne
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response 31 of 72:
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Jul 9 01:32 UTC 2003 |
I am not sure whom I would feel most sorry for in that situation. Bligh
or Stewart?
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russ
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response 32 of 72:
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Jul 9 02:12 UTC 2003 |
Honestly, Michael, honesty is what I'm best at. You're doing mighty
well at evasions, since you're still evading the question presented
in #0: why the nation being overrun with "trailer trash" would be
a good thing, and for whom? Cui bono? Your personal preference
would justify hanging out in different circles, but little else;
you have to have some other reason.
I had something in mind about the trailer-owning, land-renting set
having no ownership of anything permanent and thus having almost as
little stake in society as the denizens of the urban jungles, and
just about as much reason to either opt out or tear everything down
for the hell of it - not at all like the nation of yeoman farmers
envisioned by the authors of a certain document 227 years ago this
month. But if you prefer to argue about trivia and play personality
games, I suppose I can't force you to consider the big picture.
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tod
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response 33 of 72:
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Jul 9 02:53 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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pvn
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response 34 of 72:
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Jul 9 07:07 UTC 2003 |
re#28: Would I do something like that?
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novomit
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response 35 of 72:
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Jul 9 11:52 UTC 2003 |
What makes you guys think that having the nation overrun with "trailer park
trash" is such a bad thing? Is being born poor a crime? You're talking to some
of that trash right here. Not every one was born with a silver spoon in their
mouths.
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md
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response 36 of 72:
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Jul 9 11:59 UTC 2003 |
Thank you, novomit. Russ isn't going to believe you any more than he
believes me, but who cares?
Why do I have to have "some other reason" than that I like them, Russ?
Because you want me to, so you can keep on repeating that I haven't
explained? Your nightmarish fantasy about trailer trash "tearing
everything down for the hell of it" is fascinating in what it tells us
about you, but it has nothing at all to do with me.
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edina
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response 37 of 72:
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Jul 9 15:04 UTC 2003 |
I think Russ is just scared they may have a better soup recipe.
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slynne
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response 38 of 72:
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Jul 9 15:14 UTC 2003 |
As I am sure Russ knows, the term "trailer trash" is a derogatory term
for white folks in low socio-economic classes. They dont necessarily
live in trailers.
I am not totally sure what md meant when he said that it wouldnt be
such a bad thing to have the nation overrun with trailer trash. But
maybe he just meant that it would be nice not to be surrounded by
snobby people for a change. I didnt think he meant that we hopes
everyone tears down their houses and moves into trailers.
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rcurl
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response 39 of 72:
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Jul 9 15:45 UTC 2003 |
I suspect md would come to miss erudite discussions of Mahler symphonies if
he hung around with his "trailer trash" friends incessently.
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edina
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response 40 of 72:
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Jul 9 15:48 UTC 2003 |
Well no shit. That's why we have lots of different friends, to round out
everything that we like.
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gregb
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response 41 of 72:
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Jul 9 17:09 UTC 2003 |
I've always seen "trailer trash" (a.k.a., "white trash" as a state of
social behavior, such as what Russ described. While this is usually
associated with low economic standing. It isn't exclusive, of course
but very common.
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slynne
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response 42 of 72:
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Jul 9 18:08 UTC 2003 |
Sure, social class is a state of social behavior. Guess what? There are
educated rednecks with a lot of money. I am a bit of a snob about
social class sometimes although I try not to be. Russ seems to think
that being a snob is a virtue.
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edina
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response 43 of 72:
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Jul 9 19:49 UTC 2003 |
I used to work with an extremely wealthy group of people who were somewhat
snobs - my only thought was, "Money has made you right miserable to be
around." (Not all of them, but one for sure.)
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md
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response 44 of 72:
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Jul 9 19:52 UTC 2003 |
Good point, slynne, most of them don't literally live in trailers. I
assumed everyone understood that, but in the rarified atmosphere of
Grex maybe it does need to be spelled out.
I bet most of us have "trailer trash" in our backgrounds if you go back
far enough. Some of my ancestors came to America from a rural region
in Italy called Abruzzo. It's true they were bilingual, and the food
they prepared now sells for $100 per entree in fancy New York
restaurants (who knew?), but apart from that they were
indistinguishable from what we would call trailer trash. (I tell my
kids they're descended from "Italian hillbillies," actually.) Devoid
of pretensions, not a college degree among them, good decent people and
the occasional black sheep.
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polygon
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response 45 of 72:
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Jul 9 20:54 UTC 2003 |
My parents both had college degrees. But none of their parents or
ancestors to the nth degree did. My wife's family is similar.
So what? I think this sort of history is extremely typical. Only a tiny
percentage of people in my grandparents' generation (people born say
around 1890-1900) had any higher education. As recently as 1700, probably
99% of the world's population were (at most) peasants. We are all
descended from the salt of the earth.
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tod
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response 46 of 72:
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Jul 9 22:37 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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russ
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response 47 of 72:
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Jul 10 04:02 UTC 2003 |
Re #33: You're assuming that those in the trailers have the money
to get their message out to each other, and the focus to keep at the
goal of getting the land despite years of determined opposition (and
purchased pols and judges) by the neo-landed aristocracy. Does the
current state of affairs give you any cause to believe this?
Re #35: My father was born in exactly that situation, too. His father
assumed his son would be a manual laborer just as he was (my paternal
grandfather was an ironworker and built many bridges across the Ohio
and Pennsylvania turnpikes). Instead, my father enlisted in the Navy,
got on the G.I. bill, and became a dentist.
I think it matters that we don't become a nation of static social classes.
Do you intend to stay where you are? If not, you've made my point.
Re #36: Some people are already living the nightmare. Watts and Detroit,
1960's; Los Angeles, 1995; Benton Harbor, 2003. People who see nothing to
lose (right or wrong) can make life pretty hellish, and the one unifying
characteristic those places have is that they're overrun with poor folks
who appeared to see no future and had lots of resentment.
Re #44: So tell us what lessons these folks could teach those of us
who happen to have started a bit higher and perhaps had opportunities
to expand that they haven't. Aside from fixing their own cars (a great
way to keep money in the family), I don't see what's so great. What
are their other virtues? (So far they sound like Bill Rugg without the
maliciousness.)
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pvn
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response 48 of 72:
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Jul 10 05:59 UTC 2003 |
Personal loyalty to each other, extended "families" groups of non-bio
related. Common sense for one thing. Usually a wider range of living
skills, its not just cars. I think common sense is probably the most
important and underated. Its kinda a hardskrabble practicality -what
works works without worrying about why or how. Now that I think about
it probably common sense is pretty much evenly distributed regardless of
class its just that you expect rich people to be smart or intelligent
people to be rich.
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gull
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response 49 of 72:
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Jul 10 13:42 UTC 2003 |
Re #42:
> Guess what? There are educated rednecks with a lot of money.
In fact, we elected one of them President! ;>
Re #48: To see the "personal loyalty" and "common sense" of trailer
trash, turn on any episode of COPS.
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