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Grex > Agora46 > #30: Halal and Kosher slaughter 'must end' | |
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| 25 new of 55 responses total. |
cross
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response 25 of 55:
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Jun 26 13:52 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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gull
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response 26 of 55:
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Jun 26 14:10 UTC 2003 |
Could I be chased down by topless women, like in that Monty Python sketch?
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orinoco
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response 27 of 55:
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Jun 26 16:38 UTC 2003 |
#22 is the funniest thing I've heard this week.
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mynxcat
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response 28 of 55:
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Jun 26 17:33 UTC 2003 |
Death through excess
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tod
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response 29 of 55:
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Jun 26 19:39 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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qsysopr
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response 30 of 55:
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Jun 26 20:02 UTC 2003 |
This is just another rule set by the european goverment. They let the french
get away with eating horses and frogs!
I also think when (not if knowing EU) they impose this the killing of meat
will go under ground so to speak which will be a bigger risk to public health
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keesan
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response 31 of 55:
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Jun 26 22:30 UTC 2003 |
It is not meat until it is killed. You cannot kill meat. You can kill an
animal.
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tod
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response 32 of 55:
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Jun 26 22:34 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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senna
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response 33 of 55:
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Jun 27 02:59 UTC 2003 |
#23: If given the choice between slaughter by neck-twisting, throat-slitting,
pre-slaughter-unconsciousness, or not being slaughtered at all, I and most
other people would choose to not be slaughtered 100 times out of 100 times.
Therefore, there is absolutely no difference between the three methods; I have
chosen each of them zero times.
If I am an individual of bovine persuasion and I am sitting in a pen with
other individuals similar to me, and those individuals are disappearing at
an alarming rate, the question running through my mind and through our
conversation is not going to be "how are we going to be slaughtered?"
Actually, the conversation would consist pretty much of "moo," but translated
it would involve "are we going to get slaughtered?" Anything beyond that
question is pretty much irrelevant. A cow dragged off to the slaughterhouse
is going to be thinking, "oh no please don't slaughter me I don't want to
die," not "ah well, at least I can be thankful I'm not being dragged off by
those kosher whackos."
Actually, the cow, being non-sentient by any standards we can measure, isn't
going to be thinking anything at all.
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orinoco
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response 34 of 55:
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Jun 27 03:05 UTC 2003 |
>Therefore, there is absolutely no difference between the three methods...
I wouldn't go that far. If "go on living" isn't an option, I'd pick "painless
death" over "painful death" any day.
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polygon
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response 35 of 55:
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Jun 27 07:26 UTC 2003 |
Re 33. Apparently cows are indeed not bright enough to figure out that
they're about to be slaughtered. But pigs are.
As I understand it, pig slaughterhouses have to be designed and run in
such a way as to not tip off the ones who are waiting in line.
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scott
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response 36 of 55:
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Jun 27 09:01 UTC 2003 |
Probably they smell the fear/panic of the slaughtered animals?
Pigs are pretty smart compared to cows.
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aruba
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response 37 of 55:
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Jun 27 12:30 UTC 2003 |
Re #33: Steve (senna) - do you have a preference if your only two options
are to die peacefully or to die as the result of a month of torture?
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cross
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response 38 of 55:
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Jun 27 16:44 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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senna
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response 39 of 55:
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Jun 28 07:07 UTC 2003 |
#37: I think I'd still be curious about why that "not to die" option isn't
available and theorizing potential scenarios where it can be added to the
list. Isn't that sort of a rhetorical question?
Many animals are capable of determining when they are in danger. I think
Darwin wrote something about that a while ago.
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mdw
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response 40 of 55:
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Jun 30 16:09 UTC 2003 |
I think the point is pigs are better at figuring this out than cows.
Neither domestic pigs nor cows really represent the wild variety;
perhaps wild cows would figure things out sooner (or at least put up
more of a fuss just on general grounds).
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russ
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response 41 of 55:
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Jul 1 02:31 UTC 2003 |
The ancestor species to the domestic cow, the aurochs, is extinct.
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polygon
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response 42 of 55:
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Jul 1 05:43 UTC 2003 |
Re 40. I think pigs are simply more intelligent and self-aware creatures
than cows are.
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pvn
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response 43 of 55:
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Jul 5 09:01 UTC 2003 |
Therefore we shouldn't eat them because they taste good?
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mvpel
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response 44 of 55:
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Jul 6 17:50 UTC 2003 |
The whole idea of the kosher rules for slaughter was to minimize the suffering
experienced by the animal. Back three thousand-plus years ago, certain
societies considered it hearty evening entertainment to watch a food animal
limping around on three legs while the fourth was roasted and eaten.
I read an account a few years back of a farm family slaughtering a pig by
slowly sawing its head off as it squealed.
The kosher rules are intended to make the Jew remember the sanctity of life,
and what was lost in order to bring a meal to the table, not exclusively
for cleanliness reasons as suggested in #4.
For kosher meat, the slaugher is performed by a specially trained religious
official called the "schochet." He is required to use a "chalef," a long,
razor-sharp knife (which may not have even a single nick on it that might
tear the flesh and cause pain), and sever the arteries in the neck with a
single swift cut in order to render the animal unconscious by a loss of
blood pressure to the brain - the same mechanism that causes fainting in
humans.
http://www.hipusa.com/eTools/webmd/A-Z_Encyclopedia/faintingbasics.htm
I suspect that the effort to ban kosher slaughter is just a wedge issue
to lead to an eventual ban on meat-eating altogether. It worked for guns,
after all.
Vegetarian Advocate: A New York Ban on Meat Consumption in the Workplace
By Jack Rosenberger - http://www.satyamag.com/may03/rosenberger.html
Today, a statewide ban on meat consumption seems like an impossible
dream, but what we are trying to achieve is something that could
happen in a distant tomorrow.
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tod
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response 45 of 55:
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Jul 7 16:58 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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dcat
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response 46 of 55:
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Jul 8 02:10 UTC 2003 |
Actually, PETA is suing KFC . . .
[http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/07/national/07CHIC.html?th]
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tod
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response 47 of 55:
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Jul 8 18:07 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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gelinas
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response 48 of 55:
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Jul 8 19:50 UTC 2003 |
Sure you do:
Login: ericaltercation Password: altercation
Larry K provided this a few agoras ago.
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gull
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response 49 of 55:
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Jul 8 20:17 UTC 2003 |
I used to use cypherpunks/cypherpunks all the time until it stopped working.
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