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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 85 responses total. |
klg
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response 25 of 85:
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Jul 5 20:51 UTC 2003 |
Mr. rcurl,
Are you familiar with the concepts of "many" and "all"? They are not
the same. Perhaps you need to be enlightened. We presume you have
access to a dictionary.
Regards,
klg
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bru
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response 26 of 85:
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Jul 5 21:30 UTC 2003 |
the thing is that the liberals tend to go out and make noise, conservatives
tend to sit back and do what they need to do to live. they don't have time
to protest.
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russ
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response 27 of 85:
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Jul 5 23:27 UTC 2003 |
Re #16: Regardless of what's great about your house, one leak in
the roof is cause for immediate repairs. So with the country.
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jazz
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response 28 of 85:
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Jul 6 00:38 UTC 2003 |
I don't know that I'd take either party's label literally. I think
"conservative" as it applies to politics is the same sort of "conservative"
that applies to dress, not necessarily the sort of conservation that aims at
protecting the status quo, and certainly not the sort of conservation that
aims at protecting wildlife.
I don't think the generalization that the better-off middle classes
and the rich make up the bulk of American conservatives. There just aren't
enough of them. There are plenty of working-class conservatives, who seem
to back political decisions that are just plain bad for them. Inosfar as I
can tell, that's because of a shared way of looking at the world, even though
I don't think either party necessarily acts according to the way of looking
at the world that they propose.
I'm still in awe about how much the halo effect applies to people of
similar political standing. I know few liberals who were truly angry at
Clinton's misuse of federal resources to thwart an investigation into his
affairs, and few conservatives who're angry at Rumsfeld's granting no-bid
contracts to corporations he owns a substantial interest in.
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senna
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response 29 of 85:
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Jul 6 04:46 UTC 2003 |
It's the Republicrat effect. The enemy is the embodiment of many or all the
things my side find distasteful and/or evil, and my side, in fighting the
enemy, must therefore embody that which is decent and good.
Villainizing the other side is a political constant. It's also inaccurate
and counter-productive, and makes the country a much less pleasant place to
live in. Want proof? Extensive polls have taken place, often called
"elections," and a majority of the citizens of the United States have votes
with their, well, disinterest in voting. People on the whole don't put energy
into caring about politics. It's not worth their time.
It's like sewage treatment. People generally understand the need for it, but
they really don't want to have to watch it too closely.
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sj2
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response 30 of 85:
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Jul 6 07:11 UTC 2003 |
Hehehehe ... from here (in the context of this thread), Bush looks
like that cross between a dog and Saddam Hussein in the movie
hotshots. He seems to have the evil of the both, the republicans and
democrats.
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pvn
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response 31 of 85:
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Jul 6 08:18 UTC 2003 |
Go eat some curry.
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klg
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response 32 of 85:
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Jul 6 12:20 UTC 2003 |
(Why is Mr. senna typically so cynical? Distinctions are a fact of
life. It is not necessary to consider them so odious.)
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russ
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response 33 of 85:
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Jul 6 17:32 UTC 2003 |
Re #29: People don't put energy into caring about politics because
they mostly wish it would go away and let them get on with living;
the issues by and large are too esoteric to be easily understood and
too far away to feel real. (Who had any idea that the DMCA was
coming, and what it would do? Even today how many people are directly
affected, or even know enough to care?)
Re #32: Distinction and demonization are not synonymous.
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gelinas
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response 34 of 85:
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Jul 6 18:34 UTC 2003 |
(That's "uninterest", carson; "disinterest" does not mean "lack of care".
A disinterested observer is one not affected by the outcome.)
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jazz
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response 35 of 85:
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Jul 6 20:41 UTC 2003 |
Both parties use rhetoric and illusion to their benefit, though. A
good example is sloganeering - neither "family values" nor "freedom of choice"
is a very accurate representation of the issue of government intrusion into
private morality or the abortion debate, but both touch on key words that
inspire an emotional, not logical, response.
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janc
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response 36 of 85:
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Jul 6 21:39 UTC 2003 |
I'm not embarrassed that Sadam has not been caught or proved dead. My problem
with the bounty is that it seems to put way too much importance on Sadam.
Yes, if he's alive he's a potential focal point for people who want to undo
whatever good America may do in Iraq. However, those forces will find a focal
point even if he's dead. Catching Sadam should be fairly low on our priority
list. We have a couple generations of hard work to do to encourage the growth
of a healthy government in Iraq. I'd like to see some sign that our
government knows that. This big reward for Sadam makes it look like this is
some kind of personal feud with Sadam.
OK, I admit. I don't really want America to take on the job of turning Iraq
into a sane country. That's a nightmare of a job, expensive, thankless, and
probably futile. Doing it would make some retroactive sense out of this
stupid war, but it probably can't be done, so why bother? Probably we should
hand the job over to the UN, so we can blame them when it doesn't work. I
guess that's the plan anyway, and we just want to kill Sadam so that the same
face doesn't pop back up in charge when we leave, because that would make us
obviously laughable. A different face who behaves identically would be so
much less embarrassing, and more plausibly blameable on the UN.
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jazz
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response 37 of 85:
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Jul 6 21:43 UTC 2003 |
Politically the best thing that we can do is allow the UN - and
especially those allies critical of the war effort - to do the restructuring,
and provide unconditional humanitarian aid. People don't forget being fed.
When they grow bitter over the new regime and resent foriegn intervention,
the finger will be pointed elsewhere.
Unfortunately, this doesn't give us much control over Iraq in the
meantime, so it probably won't happen.
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mary
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response 38 of 85:
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Jul 6 21:54 UTC 2003 |
A bounty, at this point, is an obsessive use of power.
How much better it would be in preventing either Saddam's
return or the installation of a Saddam-like leader if we'd
instead put that $25 million into building two or three
schools.
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jaklumen
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response 39 of 85:
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Jul 7 00:31 UTC 2003 |
re:16-28 Good God-- a conservative vs. liberal debate. Should I be
glad the moderates are left out? Such crap.
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keesan
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response 40 of 85:
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Jul 7 06:17 UTC 2003 |
A school that I know of that was built in India cost $10,000. Schools in Iraq
(built with local labor and materials) could not possibly cost $8 million.
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sj2
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response 41 of 85:
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Jul 7 06:21 UTC 2003 |
Any facts/figures about how much the US spent on the war and how much
are they spending on rebuilding/food/medicines/restructuring Iraq?
That should put an end to a lot of debate/rhetoric here.
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sj2
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response 42 of 85:
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Jul 7 06:28 UTC 2003 |
Re#40, I think Mary's point was that if you have $25 million to spend,
then spend it on food/medicines/rebuilding Iraq rather than on
catching Saddam Hussein.
For eg., Iraqis in Baghdad are still waiting for electricity to be
restored. Something that was working well before the war. Or clean
water!! And this is just Baghdad. Other cities like Basra are far
worse off.
Re#31, Go eat a hotdog or whatever a stereotypical US citizen is
supposed to be eating.
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lk
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response 43 of 85:
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Jul 7 06:48 UTC 2003 |
Can't we just all eat hotdogs with curry and all get along and live in peace?
(Better than Apple Pie with curry!)
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pvn
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response 44 of 85:
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Jul 7 06:59 UTC 2003 |
re#42: currently the electricity in baghdad is about what it was pre
gulf-war-II. Improvements need to be made there and are. It might
surprise you to know that there are no sewage treatment plants in
baghdad in the first place so the current building of them in a definate
step forward. I expect the bounty on sadaam and his sons is in addition
to the new construction not taken from.
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jmsaul
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response 45 of 85:
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Jul 7 12:59 UTC 2003 |
What were they doing with sewage, then? Pumping it into the ground untreated?
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jazz
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response 46 of 85:
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Jul 7 13:05 UTC 2003 |
A school in Iraq could easily cost $8 million, if it's subcontracted
through Haliburton with bricks produced domestically.
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gull
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response 47 of 85:
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Jul 7 14:29 UTC 2003 |
Re #15:
> I also feel embarrassed by the people who expect this to take days
> instead of years.
Like Bush? His planning for the post-war situation was rather lacking,
from the looks of things. The Iraqis haven't been quite as friendly and
accepting as he assured us they'd be.
Re #28:
> There are plenty of working-class conservatives, who seem
> to back political decisions that are just plain bad for them.
Conservative politics are often hereditary. There are also parts of the
country where it's just not considered proper to be anything but
conservative.
"...no Texan need grow up thinking that being a Democrat is acceptable
behavior." -- GOP strategist Grover Norquist.
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slynne
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response 48 of 85:
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Jul 7 15:06 UTC 2003 |
http://www.costofwar.com/
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klg
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response 49 of 85:
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Jul 7 16:08 UTC 2003 |
re: "#47 (gull): ... The Iraqis haven't been quite as friendly and
accepting as he assured us they'd be...."
Really? The televised results of a recent poll we saw over the weekend
showed that Iraqis are in favor of the continued American administra-
tion by a margin of nearly 4 to 1.
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