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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 216 responses total. |
eeyore
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response 25 of 216:
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Nov 9 15:28 UTC 2000 |
I think it is just a slap in the face of the American people.....it's kinda
like saying "We want you to think that your vote counts, but it doesn't really
necessarily." I honestly had no clue what the Electoral did until the other
night. In fact, this has been the first election that I even gave a rats ass
about. But I guess I don't understand why we have to vote, and then our votes
get applied to somebody else, and then there is another vote anyway in
December that we have nothing to do with!!! What's up with that?????
Out of curiousity, the night of he election, they were talking about 18(?)
missing ballot boxes in Florida, all right in Democratic areas. Does anybody
know what happened to them? Were they found or anything?
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carson
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response 26 of 216:
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Nov 9 15:42 UTC 2000 |
(one was found. it contained supplies. news sources.)
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bru
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response 27 of 216:
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Nov 9 15:59 UTC 2000 |
I used to think the electoral college was an anachronism from a bygone era.
Now I understand what it is and how it works. It keeps the large states adn
large populations centers from running roughshod over the smaller or less
populated states.
It works and is a good thing.
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aaron
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response 28 of 216:
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Nov 9 15:59 UTC 2000 |
On the night of the election, some people became confused with regard to
when ballot boxes were supposed to be turned in, and that escalated into
a rumor of ballot boxes going missing. In fact, they were being accumulated
in a single location, under police guard, to be transported en masse when
voting was complete. They were never actually missing.
While Fla Stat 101.151, requires the following instruction to be placed on
the general ballot:
"To vote for a candidate whose name is printed on the ballot,
place a cross (X) mark in the blank space at the right of the
name of the candidate for whom you desire to vote...."
that statute does not apply in counties using voting machines. I do not know
whether that means voting machines to tabulate punchcard ballots, or the old
"pull a lever" kind, but either way it is apparent that you don't mark an
"x" on a punchcard ballot.
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jep
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response 29 of 216:
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Nov 9 16:13 UTC 2000 |
The Palm Beach County ballot can be seen at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/ballot/frame.htm
I heard an interesting comment about the electoral college. Because of
it, the candidates had to visit a lot of different states throughout the
election process, including Michigan, Ohio, Florida, Arkansas,
Tennessee, Arizona, Washington, and Oregon. Some of these states don't
have a lot of people, or a lot of electoral votes. If the vote was
entirely a popular vote, the candidates would have concentrated their
time in California and New York (and nearby East Coast states). There
wouldn't be any swing states, such as what Michigan was this year.
I'm not all that enamored of state's rights, but the electoral college
did have some benefit this year.
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richard
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response 30 of 216:
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Nov 9 16:13 UTC 2000 |
with 32 of 67 counties reporting in the recount in Florida, Gore has
picked up a net of 1,189 adidtional votes, Bush has picked up 346
additional votes. The difference is now down to approx. 940 votes. This
is getting very interesting. Also apparently they threw out thousands
of ballots in Palm Beach County because more than one hole was punched,
something that happened when Gore voters punched the Buchanan hole by
accident, and then also punched the Gore hole thinking this would
somehow fix it. If this comes down to a few hundred vote difference, and
all those ballots were disqualified, the only fair thing to do would be
to throw out all the ballots in Palm Beach county and re-hold the
election there.
Also, if the recount should end up with Gore ahead, the GOP is prepared
to request a new statewide election on the grounds that the networks
projected Florida for Gore before all the polls closed there. The
Florida panhandle is central timezone and polls in that part of the state
close an hour later. And the panhandle is a staunch republican area. So
the networks projecting Florida for Gore could have caused voters in
the Panhandle heading to vote to turn around.
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senna
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response 31 of 216:
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Nov 9 16:18 UTC 2000 |
The hysteria surrounding anything and everything in Florida is silly. I guess
it's inevitable, though. I like the electoral college, and everybody knew
what it was going to do coming in.
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richard
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response 32 of 216:
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Nov 9 16:56 UTC 2000 |
this is not silly...palm beach county officials announced today that
19,120 ballots were disqualified there on election night. This is a
heavily democratic county, and the number of ballots disqualified there
was, by their own admission, extraordinarily high (much higher in percentage
basis than any other county in the state) There is almost certain
to be lawsuits flying, and it may be weeks before we know who the next
leader of the free world could be.
It is far far far from being silly...its silly like a bullet in the head
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mooncat
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response 33 of 216:
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Nov 9 17:19 UTC 2000 |
How does the electoral college protect smaller populated areas from
being run roughshod over? That's the part I don't get. The more
people you have- the more electoral votes you get... someone explain?
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birdy
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response 34 of 216:
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Nov 9 17:39 UTC 2000 |
Exactly. And, as we've seen so far, what America chose (Gore with more
popular votes) might not end up with Gore in the White House. What's up with
that? The majority loses because big states have all the pull? How does that
make it fair in population standpoints? That's like saying, "Well, that
candidate got a billion votes, but since they only got three in California,
Florida, Texas, and Michigan, they lose."
Since it is a national election, they should make it a *national* vote, not
a state-separated vote.
(I know state-separated isn't a term...I'm tired). =)
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albaugh
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response 35 of 216:
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Nov 9 17:47 UTC 2000 |
You all can learn as I have: This would *not* be the first time US history
that the popular vote leader did not win the EC, though it would be the first
time since 1888. Go to http://www.avagara.com/e_c/ and read all about it.
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eeyore
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response 36 of 216:
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Nov 9 17:54 UTC 2000 |
If almost 20k ballots in Palm Beach got dq'd, then are they going to have a
repoll? At this point, I think that would only be fair, since there was
obviously a problem of some sort.
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remmers
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response 37 of 216:
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Nov 9 17:57 UTC 2000 |
Right. I believe there were three previous instances, all in the
19th century.
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birdy
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response 38 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:08 UTC 2000 |
One question on NPR today was, "If they do a repoll, do only the voters who
voted get to vote, or can other people come out now that they know how much
influence they'll have?" One good answer was, "It's sad that it would take
something like this to get people to realize that their vote and EVERY vote
counts and matters." Bravo.
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gull
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response 39 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:21 UTC 2000 |
I hadn't realized that some states (Maine and Nebraska) actually split up
their electoral college votes by congressional district. Though in this
election all four of Maine's votes went to Gore, for a while it was possible
they might split 3-1. This seems reasonable to me, and I'm curious why more
states don't do it that way.
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krj
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response 40 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:32 UTC 2000 |
Birdy in resp:34 :: Actually it was the Democrats and Gore who carried
most of the big states, with the exception of Texas.
In this election there's a sharp correlation between population
density and how an area voted, I'll try to dig out the quote
from (I think) the Washington Post.
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danr
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response 41 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:39 UTC 2000 |
Like Sarah and Ann, I also don't see how the Electroral College helps prevent
smaller states from getting the shaft. It was quite evident in this election
that neither candidate cared much about the smaller states. Why not? They
didn't have enough electoral votes.
The Electoral College was originally set up so that the number of electors was
proportional to the number of people in a state, including slaves. This gave a
disproportionate weight to voters in the southern states. It was part of the
political balance needed then, but now we have an entirely different political
climate and it should be abolished.
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richard
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response 42 of 216:
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Nov 9 18:40 UTC 2000 |
with 45 of 67 counties reporting, bush's lead is now down to 795 votes
and there's a hearing in federal court this afternoon on palm beach
county residents who have filed suit requesting a re-vote.
geez, if this was a movie script, it would get rejected for being too
far fetched
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birdy
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response 43 of 216:
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Nov 9 19:56 UTC 2000 |
Ken - I was speaking in general, not necessarily about this election even
though I used Gore and Bush as examples. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. =)
I believe Vermont splits their two electoral votes. Since Gore and Bush had
roughly 50% each, they each got one electoral vote. I thought that was kinda
cool and a much better way to do it. According to Anne, who gave me this
info, it's up to each state to decide whether or not they want to do it this
way.
This would encourage the candidates to campaign in each state and not leave
out the "non-important" small states.
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bru
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response 44 of 216:
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Nov 9 20:03 UTC 2000 |
We are seeing it in action right now. Most of the smaller EC states went to
Bush. Most of the major population areas went to Gore. So while the vote
is fairly even, the major states are not going to get their way with the
smaller states. Now, if Gore gets Florida, the majority will get the man of
their choice, but without a mandate.
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aaron
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response 45 of 216:
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Nov 9 20:24 UTC 2000 |
The majority of whom? Gore won the popular vote.
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richard
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response 46 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:12 UTC 2000 |
with 58 of 67 counties reporting down in florida, bush lead now down to
403 votes. Nine counties left.
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keesan
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response 47 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:23 UTC 2000 |
From a translation agency, the owner of which mailed this out to possibly
100 of us translators:
[names omitted]
Hi Everyone--
I've compiled this email from many that have come to me this Thursday
morning. We need to act fast and demand a re-vote in Palm County,
Florida. Below are several numbers to call and an email site where you
can demand a re-vote. If you need some reasons and facts, read on after
these important phone numbers. The numbers may be busy, and the email
is slow--hopefully because people are contacting them en masse. But
keep trying. This has to be done fast. I actually got right through to
#3 below--Brian himself! And please pass this on to all friends and
supporters!!
1. Call the US Department of Justice and demand that there is a
re-vote
in Palm Beach County, Florida due to the mass confusion of the
Butterfly
Ballot. The number is (202) 514-2000
2. Call the US Department of Justice, Voting Section and Civil Rights
Action demanding that the Butterfly Ballot in Palm Beach County,
Florida
should be looked at and voice your formal complaint and DEMAND that
there
is a re-vote. The number is (800) 253-3931 press option 4.
3. Call Brian Heffernan at the US Department of Justice who is
handling
this ALONE and demand that there is a re-vote. The number is (202)
514-4755.
4. Through this site, you can Email Florida's Division of Election
Director, Clay Roberts.
http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=9237
Thanks for your help, and may the popular vote prevail !
Karyn
More info:
20% of Buchanan's total Florida vote came from Palm Beach County; the
3,407 votes he got there were apparently way out of line with his
numbers in the rest of Florida Meanwhile in heavily Democratic Palm
Beach County, where there have been accusations that the presidential
portion of the ballot was confusing, officials announced 19,120 ballots
in the presidential race were tossed out before they were counted
because more than one candidate was picked. Only 3,783 voters made that
mistake on the U.S Senate portion of the ballot.
-----------------------
As citizens of The United States, it is our obligation not only to vote,
but to voice our opinions and DEMAND a re-vote in Palm Beach County,
Florida. PALM BEACH COUNTY WAS THE ONLY COUNTY IN THE ENTIRE STATE OF
FLORIDA TO USE THIS BUTTERFLY BALLOT. This was just stated on MSNBC.
Please look at not only your own future, but the future of your children
and your grandchildren. Please send this on to all of the people who
you know support Gore/Lieberman.
-------------------------
>From my point of view, what's needed is a public movement to demand that
Bush concede. The electoral college process has been fatally
compromised by what's happened in Florida. The "only" thing remaining
is the popular vote that Gore (oi!) won. Bush should concede and go on
vacation--perhaps to Peru.
**********************************
Hi--
Here's an addition to what I sent earlier. These email sites appear to
be easier to mail to. Send the same message of demand for a re-vote in
Palm County.
Thanks, Karyn
Palm Beach Supervisor of Elections: http://pbcelections.org/
Florida Division of Elections:
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/contact.shtml
Carole
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eeyore
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response 48 of 216:
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Nov 9 21:59 UTC 2000 |
Actually, Buchanan has publicly said that he's pretty sure that all of those
votes were not meant for him. I give him a lot of credit for that.
Heh, it was kinda fun to watch the Bush People Press Conferance....they were
stuttering over their words, and acted *really* nervous. They pointed out
that Cook County, IL, has the same type of ballot as Palm Beach. When asked
if the presidental part was the same, he stuttered, said he couldn't remember,
stuttered some more, but it eventually came out that no, it indeed was not.
Bush Players are also saying that if Gore wins, then they are going to call
into recount a few other states.
Honestly, I don't know why they do this until *ALL* of the ballots are
counted, including the mail-ins. Like the million in Cali, and the thousands
in FL.
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mdw
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response 49 of 216:
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Nov 9 22:03 UTC 2000 |
If you ask me, Buchanan came off as being more presidential than Bush.
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