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Grex > Coop13 > #64: Cyberspace Communications finances for December 2003 | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 62 responses total. |
jp2
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response 24 of 62:
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Jan 7 18:42 UTC 2004 |
This response has been erased.
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gull
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response 25 of 62:
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Jan 7 18:56 UTC 2004 |
Re resp:23: I guess we'll find out when the old machine is disconnected.
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naftee
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response 26 of 62:
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Jan 7 19:26 UTC 2004 |
We should get nuclear fusion to power the Sun .
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aruba
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response 27 of 62:
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Jan 7 19:52 UTC 2004 |
Right, the old hardware hasn't been changed in a long time, but perhaps its
power needs have for some reason. Dunno. If we needed any more incentive
to get Grex onto the new machine, this is it.
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scott
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response 28 of 62:
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Jan 7 20:37 UTC 2004 |
We've got more disks running in current Grex. too.
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aruba
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response 29 of 62:
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Jan 8 16:40 UTC 2004 |
DTE Energy tells me our building is on the "D3" rate, which means the total
cost for electricity, including credits and taxes, is $.097451312/kWh.
Using that figure I calculate our electric bill at $108.47 per month, which
is $62.50 more than it used to be. Ouch. I hope it doesn't stay at that
rate for long.
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gull
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response 30 of 62:
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Jan 8 20:08 UTC 2004 |
I assume the calculation is taking into account the computer power
supply's power factor? Modern computer supplies tend to be highly
capacitive.
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aruba
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response 31 of 62:
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Jan 8 20:22 UTC 2004 |
I have no idea about power factors.
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gull
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response 32 of 62:
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Jan 8 21:08 UTC 2004 |
It's a complicated topic, but in a nutshell if a load isn't purely
resistive, it can be using far less power than simply multiplying the
current by the voltage would indicate. (The extreme example would be a
purely capacitive or purely inductive load, which would draw current but
use no power.) If that's how the calculation was done, we're probably
overpaying by quite a bit. Didn't Grex used to own a watt-hour meter,
like is usually installed on the side of a house, for measuring its
power use? That would be the most accurate way to do it.
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scott
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response 33 of 62:
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Jan 8 21:11 UTC 2004 |
Never did get a usable number out of that watt-hour meter.
The current measurement was taken with an analog clamp-on inductive ammeter.
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other
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response 34 of 62:
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Jan 8 21:19 UTC 2004 |
Did you take an average over time, or a momentary reading?
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scott
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response 35 of 62:
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Jan 8 21:29 UTC 2004 |
A momentary reading. I've never seen Grex's power use fluctuate
significantly, other than the occasional use of a monitor.
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other
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response 36 of 62:
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Jan 8 21:31 UTC 2004 |
I'm wondering if the technology of Next grex's power supply might be newer
enough to make that difference. Worth looking into?
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gull
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response 37 of 62:
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Jan 8 21:46 UTC 2004 |
I would almost guarantee that we're overpaying. Computer power supplies
are very capacitive. Unfortunately, without a wattmeter, it's hard to
say by how much we're overpaying.
What was the problem with the watt-hour meter?
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aruba
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response 38 of 62:
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Jan 8 21:46 UTC 2004 |
How would one look into it?
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gull
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response 39 of 62:
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Jan 8 22:29 UTC 2004 |
Hmm...according to this page, some PC power supplies now have power
factor correction built in, so I could be wrong:
http://www.dansdata.com/gz028.htm
I'm not sure how you'd find out what the power factor of NextGrex's
power supply is, though the power supply manufacturer might know. I
recommend looking at the above URL, because it explains the concept of
power factor far better than I did.
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jmsaul
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response 40 of 62:
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Jan 8 23:54 UTC 2004 |
Does Grex have a separate meter?
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aruba
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response 41 of 62:
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Jan 9 00:41 UTC 2004 |
Grex is not metered separately from the rest of the building by the electric
company. We do happen to own an electric meter, though, donated by Jim and
Sindi. However, it doesn't work. (This is like bad news-good news).
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gelinas
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response 42 of 62:
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Jan 9 01:11 UTC 2004 |
(Nonetheless, all of our equipment is plugged into it.)
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bhoward
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response 43 of 62:
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Jan 9 01:36 UTC 2004 |
So how is grex' electrical bill determined and split out from the other
residents of the building if J&S' meter doesn't work?
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gelinas
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response 44 of 62:
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Jan 9 02:09 UTC 2004 |
Every now and again, Scott et al try to measure how much electricity we are
drawing, we do some arithmetic, and that's what we send the landlord, until
we do some more measuring.
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jmsaul
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response 45 of 62:
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Jan 9 03:09 UTC 2004 |
Re #41: Why would Jim and Sindi need a -- wait. They don't, which is why
they donated it. I get it.
I know gas prices are way up, but electricity shouldn't have moved all that
much. And that bill is large.
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aruba
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response 46 of 62:
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Jan 9 03:25 UTC 2004 |
The electricity rate hasn't changed much at all - in fact it's decreased a
little. But our usage jumped from 5.5 amps (last measured in 2001) to 13.25
amps. It's possible it changed sometime inbetween, but I'm pretty sure our
equipment was the same right up to when NextGrex moved there at the end of
December.
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gelinas
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response 47 of 62:
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Jan 9 03:25 UTC 2004 |
(Joe, go back to response #15 and start forward; I think the numbers might
make more sense then.)
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aruba
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response 48 of 62:
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Jan 9 03:32 UTC 2004 |
BTW if anyone else has an inductive ammeter and would volunteer to check
Scott's reading, that would be great.
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