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|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 293 responses total. |
jmsaul
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response 237 of 293:
| 
Sep 16 01:20 UTC 2002 |
That's the problem with spamblock lists. They're maintained by private
individuals with their own criteria and biases, and no accountability.
|
carson
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response 238 of 293:
|
Sep 16 01:39 UTC 2002 |
(random Michigan site?)
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jmsaul
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response 239 of 293:
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Sep 16 02:03 UTC 2002 |
It isn't M-Net. I'm not sure why Russ is being secretive about the site name,
but since he might have a reason, I won't say what it is. It isn't a spammer,
though, and it's maintained by someone at least as technically skileld as Grex
staff are.
|
jazz
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|
response 240 of 293:
|
Sep 16 13:22 UTC 2002 |
Given that spam is a bit more than just an inconvenience for sites with
a limited amount of bandwidth, and that most spam-blocking efforts are run
on a volunteer basis with only the absence of complaints as a reward, I don't
think that looking for accountability is the right thing to be doing.
|
jmsaul
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|
response 241 of 293:
|
Sep 16 13:24 UTC 2002 |
I disagree.
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jazz
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response 242 of 293:
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Sep 16 13:31 UTC 2002 |
With which point?
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jmsaul
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response 243 of 293:
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Sep 16 13:35 UTC 2002 |
That we should ignore accountability just because they're volunteers. One
of these morons black-holed a mail server at UM for years just because it had
once been hijacked by a spammer. This meant that it was a crapshoot whether
your mail from umich would get through to certain sites or not -- it depended
on which mail server happened to handle it. Repeated emails from UM staff
didn't fix the problem.
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jazz
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|
response 244 of 293:
|
Sep 16 13:47 UTC 2002 |
That's a different sort of situation than what we're talking about
here, though I do wonder why the problem was unhandled for years - did the
maintainers of the blackhole refuse to correct the oversight, or ignore
requests? If so, then I'd say that alone makes it a different case.
|
jmsaul
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response 245 of 293:
|
Sep 16 13:51 UTC 2002 |
My understanding is that they ignored requests, but I wasn't directly
involved, I just heard about it from the people trying to take care of it.
The point is that when you use someone else's blacklist, you're giving them
a lot of power over who your users can exchange mail with. That's a problem,
given that there are no guarantees about how the list is maintained. If this
particula machine has been black-holed, someone's overzealous.
|
fuzzman
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response 246 of 293:
|
Sep 16 14:21 UTC 2002 |
Any reason why the load average has been enormously high lately?
10:20am up 5 days, 21:28, 54 users, load average: 23.67, 23.22, 22.45
|
scott
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|
response 247 of 293:
|
Sep 16 14:23 UTC 2002 |
As a staffer I'm a bit insulted by Russ & Joe's attitude. We act in good
faith, and when somebody manages to wade through the piles of email to 'staff'
the block will likely be removed.
However, if you're going to be a dick about this then so am I. What system,
and why is Russ desirous of hiding it?
|
jmsaul
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|
response 248 of 293:
|
Sep 16 16:02 UTC 2002 |
Whoa, hang on. I wasn't criticizing Grex's staff, I was criticizing the
people who put together black hole lists. I had the impression that you guys
were using one that someone else maintains. The rant was brought on by
jazz's post suggesting that since those people are volunteers, they
shouldn't be held accountable. They should be, because they cause a lot
of damage and have been known to cop bad attitudes about it.
In the case of Grex's staff, I assumed you guys would fix the problem as
soon as someone got the chance. Unlike Russ, I'm aware that you guys are
all volunteers and that Grex isn't the only thing you do. I've been
there. I've never seen Grex's staff cop a bad attitude about a technical
fix. About policy issues, yes, but I don't hold that against you in this
context.
Russ may be hiding the name out of fear that someone like polycrap will
spoof tons of mail from it just to be funny. I'll email you.
|
jp2
|
|
response 249 of 293:
|
Sep 16 16:34 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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jmsaul
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response 250 of 293:
|
Sep 16 16:57 UTC 2002 |
I'm saying I don't think they should be trusted without accountability. I
wouldn't personally use those lists because of the lack of it. They
should also be accountable in the courts if they black hole someone who
shouldn't be and refuse to remove them (they probably are already).
(DISCLAIMER: I am not talking about the Grex staff.)
|
jp2
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|
response 251 of 293:
|
Sep 16 16:59 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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jmsaul
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response 252 of 293:
|
Sep 16 17:04 UTC 2002 |
Look at what I said, and tell me where I said you shouldn't be allowed to use
a black hole list.
I'm saying that I wouldn't trust them, and that I think the people who put
them together should be civilly liable if they black-hole someone who
shouldn't be, and refuse to correct the problem quickly.
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jp2
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|
response 253 of 293:
|
Sep 16 17:30 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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gull
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response 254 of 293:
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Sep 16 18:22 UTC 2002 |
I thought Grex maintained its own blacklist, instead of using someone
else's?
Personally, I use a blacklist service for one of my email accounts. I do
take a cursory look at the subject headers before deleting the mail it
flags, though. I don't see this as an infringement of anyone's rights. I
also throw out mail that looks like credit card offers without opening it.
Same thing.
|
scott
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|
response 255 of 293:
|
Sep 16 18:43 UTC 2002 |
Grex maintains its own list. We've recently discussed using an outside list
to reduce the amount of work spent on our own list. But we also need to be
able to react quickly - just like yesterday.
|
jazz
|
|
response 256 of 293:
|
Sep 16 20:21 UTC 2002 |
No, I didn't say that volunteers shouldn't be accountable for what they
do because they're volunteers, I said:
Given that spam is a bit more than just an inconvenience for sites
with
a limited amount of bandwidth, and that most spam-blocking efforts are run
on a volunteer basis with only the absence of complaints as a reward, I don't
think that looking for accountability is the right thing to be doing.
Translated as much for public benefit as I can, "there are more useful
things to do than blame people".
|
jmsaul
|
|
response 257 of 293:
|
Sep 16 20:36 UTC 2002 |
Re #253: They should be. Listing someone as a spammer is defamatory, and
in the case of a blacklist provided to the public causes actual
damage.
|
tpryan
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response 258 of 293:
|
Sep 16 22:13 UTC 2002 |
?Grex is banning mail from a Founder's machine?
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jmsaul
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|
response 259 of 293:
|
Sep 16 22:15 UTC 2002 |
Based on Scott's response, not since it was brought to their attention.
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jmsaul
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response 260 of 293:
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Sep 16 22:34 UTC 2002 |
Grex may have its own version of the polytarp spam warming up:
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:24:03 -0400
From: Tomoko Reborn <tomoko2@cyberspace.org>
To: jmsaul@cyberspace.org
Hello
Nice day
see you
To be continued
Tomoko Zombie
Got two copies of that.
|
mynxcat
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|
response 261 of 293:
|
Sep 16 22:40 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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