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Grex > Coop9 > #55: Motion: To allow unregistered reading of all conferences | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 367 responses total. |
rcurl
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response 220 of 367:
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Mar 6 03:42 UTC 1997 |
Motions with tie votes fail. There is no "chair" for mail ballotting, so there
is no one to break a tie.
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babozita
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response 221 of 367:
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Mar 6 04:06 UTC 1997 |
Richard, my math is immaculate. My estimates are most likely flawed, or, more
appropriately, inaccurate. My numbers can only be flawed if I had claimed any
level of accuracy. I specifically disclaimed accuracy with the word
hypothetical.
This was merely an example of why higher exposure doesn't necessarily mean
higher usage. I think it was an adequate example, even if the numbers don't
match Grex's.
Your response is causing me to believe that you've taken to participating in
spaking-in-tongues. Aspects of it certainly weren't English, not that I know
of it. =}
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srw
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response 222 of 367:
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Mar 6 06:14 UTC 1997 |
I think your conclusion is probably pretty accurate, babozita. I believe
that it is your hypothesis that is flawed. Perhaps Kerouac wants to see
more newuser runs. I will be quite pleased if the effect is to reduce
the number of newuser runs. I am interested in seeing more people run
newuser for the purpose of conferencing. I am interested in seeing fewer
people run newuser because it is simply the only way you can do things
on Grex, only to realize that they don't want to keep their account.
Even if 90% of the people who look at these conferences reject them, and
thus don't run newuser, it will be a victory. Constamtly creating and
reaping accounts that have been used once or twice before abandonment is
a waste of Grex's resources. The 10% who create accounts to conference
will be well selected users, not the random users we have today.
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robh
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response 223 of 367:
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Mar 6 08:56 UTC 1997 |
Re 213 - I'm fine with extending the voting. I actually did
say to myself, "Shouldn't the voting be for ten days instead of
fourteen?", but with the jumble my life has become, I figured
I was the one in error.
Besides which, that's four more days of my being allowed to stay. >8)
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tsty
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response 224 of 367:
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Mar 6 09:46 UTC 1997 |
fine with me remmers to keep the voting period at it's 'longer' state.
it's the right thing to do, and only a tiny 'oops,' no biggie.
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babozita
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response 225 of 367:
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Mar 6 13:54 UTC 1997 |
#222> In what way do you think my hypothesis is flawed?
Do you think the number of "select" (i.e., people who actually WANT to be
here) users will go up? I honestly don't. I don't think it will go down or
up, appreciably. I think the way in which Mary's proposal willhelp Grex is
in the significant decrease in newuser runs (by people who aren't interested
in Grex). I do think we'll lose a lot ofpotential "select" users, too, because
they'll skim through once and forget about Grex by the morning light, not
having a handle and a password scribbled on a cocktail napkin.
I caught the error at the very beginning, but didn't mention it because it
was so trivial.
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adbarr
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response 226 of 367:
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Mar 6 18:40 UTC 1997 |
I wonder if we need an item called "Predictions" or maybe two items, one for
"Dire Predictions" and another for "Not so bad Predictions".
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rcurl
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response 227 of 367:
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Mar 6 20:05 UTC 1997 |
And, "I forgot to mention it, but I made that Prediction" Predictions.
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babozita
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response 228 of 367:
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Mar 6 21:19 UTC 1997 |
I like Rane's idea best. =}
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richard
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response 229 of 367:
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Mar 6 23:10 UTC 1997 |
I would only suggest that if this passes, that there be a period of notice,
say two weeks, before implementation, so that people who do have a problem
with this have ample time to remove any items they dont want unregistered
users reading.
Its possible that an fw might wantto restart their conf or something, you
never know.
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adbarr
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response 230 of 367:
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Mar 7 00:31 UTC 1997 |
Of course, we would not want Joe Palooka to read our posts, would we. I agree,
Richard. I just think this is a tiny tempest in a huge teapot. There must be
a subtlety here (the "issue") that is continually flying over my head. I can
think of some really strange reasons for not wanting the public to read public
statements, but the rational basis escapes me. I have disgusted some (one,
at least), I hope I can provoke others to explain. I like the idea of the
third conference rcurl (#227) suggests. This reminds me of the apocryphal
security classification: "DBR". Destroy Before Reading!" And, it makes about
as much sense. You want privacy, stay on the a:\ drive, and then protect
yourself. Here, there is no expectation that I can see.
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ryan1
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response 231 of 367:
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Mar 7 01:33 UTC 1997 |
<gasp! the world stops momentarily>
I agree with Richard, there should be a waiting period, so people can
clean things up, or make counter-proposals :)
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ladymoon
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response 232 of 367:
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Mar 7 04:31 UTC 1997 |
You know- I don't care which way this vote goes- it's totally and perfectly
INVALID.
The proposal was so poorly defined that the vote winds up being over policy
that affects NOT ONE THING.
I expect that all votes will be thrown out. Anything that will affect the
issue will have to be re-proposed, and allowed another 14 day discussion
period, and all thanks to Mary Remmers not knowing a lick about how to word
policy. Thank you, Mary. You've made my entire week!
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babozita
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response 233 of 367:
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Mar 7 04:56 UTC 1997 |
As I've already Istated, I agree with Selena, but know that she will be
ignored.
Ryan and Richard, it will take so much more than two weeks for most of us to
clean thins up, it's silly. Two weeks for fair warning is wise, though; I just
disagree with the motivation for it.
Arnold, yes, I , too, have seen the light. There are brigands on Grex, some
of whom I once trusted. The presence of brigands, I ultimately decided, is
no reason to deny the rest of the unwashed masses the privelege of my
sagacious elocutions.
"And if I don't know who to love, I''ll love them all.
And if I don't know who to trust, I'll trust them all.
And if I don't know who to kill, no sucide -- I'm already dead."
-- Live, i forget which song (so don't quote it again!)
I made a msitake about who is trustworthy and who isn't.
I've since changed my perspective.
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jenna
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response 234 of 367:
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Mar 7 05:50 UTC 1997 |
I also agree with Selena and Brighn. The thing is kinda
worded ambiguosly.
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rcurl
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response 235 of 367:
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Mar 7 07:58 UTC 1997 |
But what will result is very clear: conferences will be readable from the
web without users having grex accounts.
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remmers
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response 236 of 367:
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Mar 7 12:26 UTC 1997 |
Right. And I think it's clear to everybody reading this
discussion that that is the intent.
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tsty
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response 237 of 367:
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Mar 7 13:46 UTC 1997 |
is taht what the proposal says, in vote? (#235)
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babozita
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response 238 of 367:
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Mar 7 16:48 UTC 1997 |
#236> Intent? OIC. Rules shouldn't be based on intent. They should *say* what
they mean to say. Although, frankly, I'm glad the web isn't named in the vote,
since this allows anon telnet access too... which, if I understand Mary right,
she isn't averse to (nor am I, since fair's fair)
My problem with the wording is that it doesnt mention how its intent would
be ccom;lished, and therefore must be interpreted as broadly as possible:
anybody who can figure out how to access grex'smaterials, regardless of route,
can so access it. I'd've felt more comfortable if there were SOME limitations
on it.
BUT BUT BUT allof this is moot, folks. There are rules of order here, and if
y'all were uncomfortbale with the wording of the actual motion, y'all
should've piped up before the official vote was announced. It's too late now.
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rcurl
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response 239 of 367:
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Mar 7 18:50 UTC 1997 |
Ah ha! That's the problem! There are *NO* rules of order here. Whenever
the notion comes up (usually from me) to adopt some rules of order, it gets
pooh-poohed by many - it is not the "grex" way, they say. So, you see, this
motion is right in the grex manner - isn't that appropriate?
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jenna
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response 240 of 367:
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Mar 7 23:23 UTC 1997 |
I think it's a good idea, rane. i think one of the first ones should be
a limit of time between when an issue is voted on and when
it can be voted on again (regardless of outcome)
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mary
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response 241 of 367:
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Mar 8 00:17 UTC 1997 |
Not linking this policy to Web access, Newuser, or Picospan was
deliberate. In fact, not long ago there was a discussion here on coding
"guest" access which would have allowed unregistered read access through
telent. There was none of this "needing to know who is reading my poetry"
response to that issue, if I remember correctly. But alas, the code never
got written. Maybe someday it will be. This vote, as worded, would allow
unregistered reading though Web or telnet, and would provide for a
consistent policy.
Newuser and Picospan might not always be our primary software - so why
mention it unnecessarily in our policies?
As to the concern that the word "unregistered" might not be understood...
I did a little grep on items #27 and #55 looking for how many times the
word "unregistered" had been used in the discussion. In item #27 it was
used 224 times. In this item it was used 53 times. I don't think the
term is vague or pulled out of thin air. Anyone who has read even a
little bit about this issue would be familiar with what it means.
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dpc
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response 242 of 367:
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Mar 8 00:26 UTC 1997 |
Curious. All of the discussion of this proposal, and Valerie's ill-fated
proposal, was about allowing unregistered access *from the Web.* Now
the author says the broad wording was intended to allow unregistered
access *by any method.*
I disagree. The intent of the wording may be inferred from the
terms of the prior discussion. If adopted, I think the policy will
only authorize unregistered reading from the Web.
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ladymoon
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response 243 of 367:
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Mar 8 00:36 UTC 1997 |
But, david, it won't be limited to that- you see, Mary wants her cake and to
eat it too.
She wants the intent of the term "unregistered" to have meaning beased on this
discussion, but the fact that this discuccion has only been about web-access
shouldn't limit her wording she says.
You can't have it both ways, Mary. Either the discussion in here defines
things for the proposal, or it doesn't. Learn to actually write clearly first!
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mary
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response 244 of 367:
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Mar 8 00:51 UTC 1997 |
Unregistered, throughout the discussion, has been used to mean not needing
to go through Newuser and select a personal login and password. I see
nothing unclear about what the word "unregistered" means or what it
matters how you get connected to the machine. What we are voting on is
whether unregistered users should be allowed read access to Grex
conferences.
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