response 210 of 278:

Jun 7 21:54 UTC 2004

  re #208:  My reaction to Shrek 2 was certainly not as enthusiastic
  as Ken's.  Having seen it over the weekend I can't imagine wanting
  to see it multiple times in the theater.  It wasn't horrible but
  even with decidedly modest expectations I found it didn't really
  live up to them.

  Most grating at all, at least to me, was the film's use of music.
  The original Shrek wasn't a subtle film either, but the person who
  picked the music seemed to know how to enhance a scene with the right
  musical choice (for example the scene which uses John Cale's cover
  of Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah")  I couldn't find a single scene in
  Shrek 2 that benefitted from the accompanying music, and some of the
  musical choices were cringe-inducing -- the big "Livin' la Vida Loca"
  musical number at the end and the action scene inexplicably set to
  a decidedly inferior cover of the Buzzcock's classic "Ever Fallen in
  Love" both spring to mind.

  As for the jokes, I will admit that they piled in a *lot* of pop
  culture references, many of which I probably missed.  The ones I had
  time to notice, however, didn't seem particularly insightful or
  amusing to me, they just seemed to be there with no real point to
  them.  "Oh look, it's another 'Matrix' reference, or is it supposed to
  be a reference to Shrek 1's bullet-time gag?" or "Wow.  'Sir Justin'
  looks just like Justin Timberlake.  How hilarious.. <yawn>"

  But don't let me suck all the joy out of it for any of the rest of you.
  More than likely you'll have a good time; I seem to be in a distinct
  minority of people who didn't think it was particularly good.

response 212 of 278:

Jun 8 06:09 UTC 2004

re #202-- Twila, what was wrong with Arthur's mother being a bellydancer
in Excalibur.  The scene is a flashback, showing Arthur's mother when
Arthur was conceived, when she was young and desireable.  Why is it
necessary that Arthur's mother have come from high society?  If Arthur's
mother was a commoner, in these dark ages, and was good looking, she may
well have made money the ways in which good looking women made money in
those days.  Let us not confuse modern times with the dark ages.  I think
Boorman did not want to look at the probable past of Arthur's family with
rose colored glasses and it was commendable

Did you also disapprove of the incest between arthur and morgaine, that
produces mordred?  Other legends have Mordred the son of Lot.  I guess it was
a bit revisionist but I still liked it

response 214 of 278:

Jun 8 10:34 UTC 2004

For a realistic idea of how the well-born treated the low-born, see the prima
nocte scenes in Braveheart.

response 216 of 278:

Jun 8 14:18 UTC 2004

mcnally, who knows if Shrek 2 is a good film or not.  But it was certainly
enjoyable - at least for most people - and the fact that you didn't derive
must enjoyment from it won't wreck it for other people, believe me.
I mean, c'mon, giant cookie named "Mongo" - that's as good as it gets!  :-)

response 218 of 278:

Jun 8 14:48 UTC 2004

Point.

response 220 of 278:

Jun 8 18:43 UTC 2004

Re #213:
    What about that bit where Arthur pulls the sword out of the rock while
no one else could?

response 222 of 278:

Jun 8 19:08 UTC 2004

Yep - and the device of having Arthur pull the Sword out the Stone is probably
simply a mythical or fictional one to get around #213.

response 224 of 278:

Jun 8 19:31 UTC 2004

Richard: re212: Hmmm. Guess my suspension of disbelief is way lower than yours
about belly-dancers in England. In 500 or thereabouts. Nope. Sorry, I don't
think the Celts were really into belly-dancing in Middle Eastern costumes.
And Igraine was definitely a Queen. So nope. Again, I'm not buying it. And
I still hate the "rape" by Uther while in full plate. Dumb dumb dumb. I am
a full Sir Thomas Malory Le Mort d'Arthur canon-fiend (or, if pressed, I'd
go with Giraldus or the Welsh Triads, all of which have some pretty definitive
Arthurian material), but Borman just doesn't cut it. (Neither does Marion
Zimmer Bradley's uber-feminist Mists of Avalon, to be fair.)   I admit that
the real (if there was a real true person who was Arthur) would have been
probably a Romano-British war leader, but I happen to go with the full
mythological Malory figure for my Arthur. 

About the music in "Shrek 2" -- it didn't seem obtrusive during the movie,
to the point that I'm still not sure where most of the music on the soundtrack
album was actually used (I know where maybe 5 songs were in the movie,
"Accidentally in Love" at the beginning, "Funkytown" and the Tom Waits song,
and of course both fairy godmother numbers and "Livin' La Vida Loca"...). I
bought the album because I wanted to get the version of "La Vida" (I'm a
sucker for Puss and Donkey, what can I say? I want to get boots for my cat!)
but I like more than threequarters of it quite a bit. I particularly like the
Pete Yorn song, after the Fairy Godmother's version of "Holding Out..." and
the Counting Crows song. I was particularly shocked to find myself actually
semi-enjoying the Tom Waits song, since I don't like Tom Waits's voice at all,
and I don't do black depressive songs.

response 226 of 278:

Jun 8 21:01 UTC 2004

re #224:

> I particularly like the Pete Yorn song..

Ouch..  The Buzzcocks' original of "Ever Fallen in Love" is a pop music
masterpiece -- a bouncy, high energy two-minute gem that was an almost
perfect blend of punk and power pop.  Yorn's cover version, used on
the soundtrack, might well be the best track in the movie, and it's
also better (in my opinion) than anything on his breakthrough album
"musicforthemorningafter" but it's just so.. lacking.. compared to
the original..  I'm really trying NOT to be a pop culture snob but it's
distressing (in a small way) to think that there are people whose only
experience with the song will cause them to remember it as "the Pete Yorn
song from Shrek 2"  Even if you enjoy Yorn's version of the song, however,
it's not a very good choice for the scene it accompanies in the movie
(which [mild spoiler] is a chase scene in the potion works.)  There are
plenty of movies which feature music I don't like which nevertheless
manage to use their music more effectively than I thought "Shrek 2" did 
and which didn't leave me with a feeling of jarring disconnect between
what was happening on-screen and in the story with what I was hearing in
the music..

> I was particularly shocked to find myself actually semi-enjoying the
> Tom Waits song, since I don't like Tom Waits's voice at all, and I don't
> do black depressive songs.

If you don't do bleak, downbeat songs I doubt that you're in any danger of
winding up a Tom Waits fan, as warned in #225, but even singing his own
songs I find Waits' voice works very well for some songs, not well for others.
If you develop an interest in hearing more of Waits' work I recommend the
album "Rain Dogs" as the best starting place.

response 228 of 278:

Jun 9 15:13 UTC 2004

Agreed that his voice works well for some songs and not others.  I'm
sure there's disagreement about which ones, too.  For example, I like
his version of "Downtown Train" a lot better than Rod Stewart's, but I'm
sure there are many people who feel otherwise.

response 230 of 278:

Jun 9 17:28 UTC 2004

Re. 225:  I didn't "dislike" it.  I was just dissapointed that it didn't
match the spirit of the first two.  I'm glad that ther'll be another
film and I'll certainly be there opening weekend to see it.

response 232 of 278:

Jun 9 20:06 UTC 2004

Hi, Glenda!