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Grex > Coop13 > #376: The problems with Grex, e-mail and spam | |
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| 25 new of 480 responses total. |
keesan
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response 206 of 480:
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Dec 12 15:32 UTC 2006 |
A former staff member knows nothing about when staff meets? Has there EVER
been a policy?
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rcurl
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response 207 of 480:
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Dec 12 15:50 UTC 2006 |
The policy is in the bylaws, available as Item 2 in Coop. But that just says
the Board does all the staff appointing (and dis-appointing by inference).
In any case, if the Board wants to hear from Staff on this, let us hear from
Staff. Staff: do you have any problem with spooked being (re)appointed to
Staff by the Board and, if so, what is it?
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cross
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response 208 of 480:
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Dec 12 16:11 UTC 2006 |
Regarding #206; I've never participated in a staff meeting. The last time
I tried to participate in a board meeting, I was told there was no room for
me to dial in.
Regarding #207; Just Mic?
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cmcgee
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response 209 of 480:
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Dec 12 16:31 UTC 2006 |
I'm glad to hear those ghost filters are gone.
I too wish Cross and spooked were back on staff. I'd like to hear from
Board members exactly what they need from Grex users/members in order to
quickly move forward on reappointing them.
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jadecat
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response 210 of 480:
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Dec 12 16:52 UTC 2006 |
My only qualm, as a member and not a board member, is the issue of
having hot tempers- of their both resigning in a huff and now rethinking.
Tempers and ego will always be an issue (as a general statement for
anyone, not just for these two) so can either of Mic or Dan give any
reassurances that the next time they feel pissed off/unheard/shat on
that they won't again quit in a huff and then later come back and want
to be part of staff again?
Yo-yo-ing I'm Staff/I'm not/I'm Staff/I'm not doesn't exactly speak for
staff stability. Now I know this last time around it was a removal due
to poor communication, and no reinstatement due to Mic quitting.
That said, their interest in helping to improve Grex is something Grex
really needs right now.
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jep
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response 211 of 480:
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Dec 12 18:16 UTC 2006 |
Neither cross nor spooked did any damage in the way they resigned. I
don't have any qualms about them returning. I hope they can.
Marcus is still on staff, right? How long since he's done anything on
Grex? STeve has had absences of months. Dan and spooked have remained
active, offered suggestions, and participated as non-staff members as
much as they could. Why should dropping out of the staff count against
them in any way? I perceive no absence of regard for their abilities,
or their trustworthiness. They both say they are interested in applying
their skills to at least one problem of crucial importance to Grex.
What's the argument for keeping them *off* staff, again?
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spooked
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response 212 of 480:
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Dec 12 18:29 UTC 2006 |
I resigned because I was not offered an apology. I still to this day
have not been offered an apology by that certain individual whose
discretionary behaviour was not appropriate, and (whilst the discussion
has been done in discussion out of my eyes) I can bet who has since gone
conveniently missing (again) when any decision (with regards to positive
contribution) involving cross or myself needs to be made.
I don't like to get personal, but I have stated on the record this IS
personal for a small few persons on staff. It is about reputations and
friendships spanning over a decade instead of what IS being done, and what
has NOT been done in the last few years.
I did think America was a democracy, fair and equal. At least that's what
I hear from watching Fox News. How the Grex staff operates is not the best
example of this.
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jep
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response 213 of 480:
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Dec 12 18:49 UTC 2006 |
The Grex staff is not a democracy. Neither is the company I work for.
Why should they be? Would you want Grex to vote on whether you should,
I don't know, delete some file or spend your time on a project of your
choosing? Grex is a democracy but the staff is not.
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cross
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response 214 of 480:
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Dec 12 19:00 UTC 2006 |
Regarding #210; With all due respect, I think that shows a lack of
understanding of the underlying issues as to *why* both Mic and myself
resigned from staff. Should we just let staff and board members insult us?
I mean, honestly.
How about this: I think it's bullshit that Marcus Watts is still in the
wheel group with root privileges when he hasn't been active on grex in
several years. I think it's bullshit that no one spoke to Steve about the
way he acted towards both Mic and I in the last go round. I think that it's
bullshit that major technical problems go unsolved on grex and people are
worried about ``huffs'' (which isn't how I see it at all, for the record)
and not about fixing the underlying problems because, God Forbid someone
should inadvertantly insult Marcus or Steve or anyone else in the process.
I think that it's bullshit that there is no accountability with staff
because we all want to sit around playing Happy Family and singing Kum Buy
Yah instead of facing some hard realities.
All Animals are Equal, but Some are More Equal than Others.
Regarding #213; The thing is, the staff *wants* to run itself as a
democracy. Or, a benevolent dictatorship. It's fine if Steve and Marcus
make any changes they want, but God Forbid someone should do something else
without consulting one of them first.
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spooked
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response 215 of 480:
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Dec 12 19:10 UTC 2006 |
Dan is spot on again. I have never spoken to him one-on-one, yet it is
quite clear to me he speaks the truth, fair-and-balanced by his reaccounts
(through the public record) of how staff operates versuses how it guises
to operate.
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spooked
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response 216 of 480:
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Dec 12 19:49 UTC 2006 |
I put this proposition forward. Staff decides whether it wants cross and
myself onboard by this Friday (it has already had weeks to decide). If by
this time, I have heard nothing, I will remove my offer of services and
utilise them elsewhere - you will not see or hear of me again on Grex,
ever.
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cyklone
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response 217 of 480:
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Dec 12 20:49 UTC 2006 |
Re #210: Are you willing to apply that standard to current staff as well? As
I recall, STeve was pretty "huffy" as well.
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keesan
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response 218 of 480:
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Dec 12 20:52 UTC 2006 |
How can 'staff' decide when it is a conglomeration of different people? I
don't think there is going to be a board meeting again until next year.
Please don't make statements like this, most of us want you here and you are
probably asking for something not possible. Can the board appoint a new or
returning staff member before the next meeting?
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jadecat
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response 219 of 480:
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Dec 12 20:57 UTC 2006 |
resp:214 I may not have a complete understanding of the event, but I did
read the items in coop. I also think that you would be a good addition
to staff. Additionally, I remember when you were a part of staff and a
few not-so-terrible things were said, then misinterpreted into the worst
light possible, you blew up at the writer and quit in a huff.
No, I don't think you should be insulted by staff and board. I think
perhaps you should grow a thicker skin as to what's insulting. My
intention, with my last post, was to say that you were very helpful and
useful when you were on staff. Then you let a situation get WAY out of
control and got mad and quit.
Let me also say that I don't worship at the shrine to Marcus and STeve.
Okay? I'm not going to sit here and claim that they are the only ones
who know what's in Grex's best technical interests. I think your, and
Mic's, input would be very valueable. I just want to see you stick
around long enough to implement your ideas! :)
resp:216 Ultimatums, even disguised as porpositions, rarely make the
giver look good, or make anyone want to give in to that person. Or maybe
that's just me, they tend to put my back up. It sounds petulant. "I
didn't get an apology so DO THIS or I'm taking my toys and going home."
I don't think that's what you intended, and I doubt that everyone else
will read your statement the way that I have. You know, too, that Grex
rarely, if even makes decisions on anything in less than a week's time.
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jadecat
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response 220 of 480:
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Dec 12 21:12 UTC 2006 |
resp:217 (which slipped in) Yeah, STeve got huffy- but he didn't quit
staff over it. Which to me is the difference. Sure, get upset, defend
your position, but don't allow yourself to be easily insulted, don't
have a hyper-reactive 'then I quit!' reflex, and don't take all of it so
personally.
I don't think current staff is perfect, most everything seems to take
too long, and I agree that STeve and Marcus seem to be the main factors
in all decisions. I'm not sure that's appropriate, especially given that
Marcus is too busy for Grex, and has been for years.
However, I'm also speaking as someone who enjoys Grex but doesn't have
any technical knowledge to speak of. I don't know UNIX/any of the BSDs,
I don't know how to implement programs (like Sindi's spam blocker), and
I pretty much just enjoy Grex for the social/community aspect.
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spooked
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response 221 of 480:
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Dec 12 21:18 UTC 2006 |
It has been more than a week, in fact several weeks (including Dan's
requests). Moreover, I was given assurances when I resigned that if I
wanted back in it would be done so promptly.
I am making definitive statements with regards to being wished-washed
around, not just with Grex staff - but also my professional work, and my
personal life. I'm at a stage of life where I don't need to prove myself
to anyone nor be trapped-in by political bullshit. I am offering my time
and services - Grex is NOT doing me a service, coincidentally something
lost on some of the Grex current staff. My statements in regard to how
Grex staff operates are not selfish, they are purely for the good of Grex
--- if people cannot see that, that's not my problem (it is theirs' and
Grex's).
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slynne
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response 222 of 480:
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Dec 12 22:01 UTC 2006 |
FWIW, I can understand why Grex has the system it currently has for
deciding who gets to be on staff. The staff basically makes
recommendations to the board. I think this is a system that certainly
worked very well in the past but has some limitations now.
However, I cant think of a system that would work better. The staff are
the ones who know what kind of technical ability prospective staff
members have. They also (hopefully) have some idea of who they might
want to work with. Now, I dont really know what any staff members think
about re-adding cross/spooked back to staff. But I know that my own
first gut reaction when someone gives me an ultimatums is pretty much
exactly like what jade describes in resp:219 . They really make me not
want to have anything to do with the person anymore and that is
ESPECIALLY so if I think the ultimatum isnt true (i.e. that the person
giving the ultimatum doesnt really mean it).
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rcurl
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response 223 of 480:
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Dec 12 22:07 UTC 2006 |
I vote to return cross and spooked to staff. Yes, I know I have no vote on
this, but I want to express my belief that this would be good for Grex. I
presume that they WOULD communiate with staff about any changes they plan
to make to implement spam blocking, or whatever.
There is no provision in the bylaws for electronic meetings or voting by
the board. This might be desirable to permit. The board can, however, call
a special meeting with the priviso
"The time, place, and agenda of each BOD meeting shall be publicized one
week in advance of the meeting, or as soon thereafter as feasible."
(The antecedent to "thereafter" is not clear, but it would be Grexian to
be "the meeting".)
So, Please Board, do this. Now.
And also, Please Mic, hold off on your ultimatum.
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tod
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response 224 of 480:
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Dec 12 22:13 UTC 2006 |
This item reads like a cross between a Scientology audit and a Freemason
tracing board.
"I'm sorry, Dave. I can't do that."
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spooked
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response 225 of 480:
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Dec 12 22:46 UTC 2006 |
As I feel board does not want me on staff, and I have heard nothing from
staff (just as I expected because they are strictly politically-anal), I
feel I will be leaving Grex very shortly.
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keesan
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response 226 of 480:
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Dec 12 22:57 UTC 2006 |
What gives you the impression the board members don't want you on staff?
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tod
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response 227 of 480:
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Dec 12 23:04 UTC 2006 |
*sound of crickets*
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slynne
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response 228 of 480:
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Dec 12 23:19 UTC 2006 |
resp:223 - well, you can always request a member vote to force Grex to
put cross and spooked on the staff if you want to.
resp:225 - As a board member, I dont really have an opinion about if
spooked or cross should be on staff. If the current staff were to
recommend either one of them, I would have no reservations about giving
my approval to the deal.
On the other hand, I can kind of see why the current staff might have a
problem with them. While I think that both of them probably can do good
things for Grex to the point where I have brought it up at a board
meeting, I can honestly see why the current staff might not want to
work with them. If I were on staff, I would have no trouble working
with them but I am not on staff.
As a board member, I am not inclined to force the current staff to
accept people they dont want to accept. There are a lot of reasons why
I dont think it is a good idea to step on the current staff's toes but
frankly, one of the major reasons is that I think that it is prudent to
stick with the staff members who DONT quit because they are the ones
who...well...DONT quit.
I would urge the current staff to consider them, of course.
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tod
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response 229 of 480:
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Dec 12 23:23 UTC 2006 |
I would encourage the staff to keep doing what its been doing: Nothing.
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spooked
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response 230 of 480:
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Dec 12 23:23 UTC 2006 |
Grex's 2006 Board members are:
Mark Conger (aruba) (treasurer)
S. Lynne Fremont (slynne) (secretary)
Joe Gelinas (gelinas)
Bruce Howard (bhoward)
Lawrence Kestenbaum (polygon) (president)
John Remmers (remmers)
Jan Wolter (janc)
o Have not heard from ---aruba--- on this matter.
o ---slynne--- obviously thinks I am foxing and have selfish motives.
o Have not heard from ---gelinas--- on this matter (though he IS a staff
member also).
o Have not heard from ---bhoward--- on this matter (though he IS a staff
member also).
o Not sure if polygon's weighted in on this matter.
o ---remmers--- has privately stated he regrets supporting my
re-instatement offer to staff (and he IS a staff member).
o Have not heard from ---janc--- on this matter (though he IS a staff
member also).
Considering OVER half of the current board are also staff members, it is
clear to me that both parties are taking pleasure is seeing me go.
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