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Grex > Coop11 > #110: Cyberspace Communications finances for June, 1999 |  |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 78 responses total. |
janc
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response 18 of 78:
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Jul 8 20:05 UTC 1999 |
I think the only way adding dialins would be interesting would be if
they were added in some other city.
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toking
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response 19 of 78:
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Jul 8 20:11 UTC 1999 |
resp:18 that would most deffinately be cool
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ryan
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response 20 of 78:
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Jul 8 20:24 UTC 1999 |
This response has been erased.
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lilmo
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response 21 of 78:
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Jul 8 21:08 UTC 1999 |
Add one in Blacksburg, and I'll call in every day. Hmm... maybe that's not
such a good idea; I do need to get SOME sleep. At least the library closes
every night, and I *have* to leave.
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richard
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response 22 of 78:
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Jul 8 21:20 UTC 1999 |
could add a dialin in columbus for grexohio...or perhaps in upstate
michigan somewhere
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aruba
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response 23 of 78:
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Jul 9 04:05 UTC 1999 |
I wonder how far afield we could add lines and still have them be on our
Centrex system?
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hhsrat
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response 24 of 78:
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Jul 9 04:33 UTC 1999 |
Probably not too far, but I don't know anything about centrex or phones.
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krj
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response 25 of 78:
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Jul 9 04:37 UTC 1999 |
I think it's called OPX Centrex, Off-Premises Extension. MSU, my employer,
has some scattered around. The problem is that there is a per-mile charge
every month.
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mdw
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response 26 of 78:
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Jul 9 05:40 UTC 1999 |
If we wanted to do dialups elsewhere, there are 2 ways that make the
mose sense to consider: (1) locate some sort of terminal server with the
modems, buy an extra phoneline or ISDN line, and connect it up to the
internet, (2) make a deal with some ISP (such as merit) to share the use
of their dial-ups. Both of these cost money. It's not clear to me that
the economics of operating dialups is all that compelling.
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jep
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response 27 of 78:
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Jul 9 13:34 UTC 1999 |
I don't see why there's any need for Grex to add dial-ups anywhere else.
How many people could be expected to use them? The people we'd be
trying to reach would be people with computers and modems, who want to
use Grex, but aren't interested in using the Internet (or who can't for
some reason -- incapable computers, insufficient available money to have
an ISP account, etc.)
I don't believe there's any place in the state where no ISP is
available, and darned few where there aren't multiple ISPs, so we
wouldn't be offering anything to people that they couldn't get another
way.
What's the point of this?
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janc
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response 28 of 78:
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Jul 9 16:26 UTC 1999 |
I'm not at all sure it would be a good idea - but like I said, it would
be interesting to consider.
It would offer something to people that they couldn't get other ways -
free internet access.
Grex's support is strongest here in Ann Arbor. Maybe we'd get more
support in other places if we had dial-ins in other places.
Probably we'd need someone with a full-time internet connection at some
remote place who was eager enough to do this to be willing to set up a
terminal server, and one or more modems and phone lines at their
location, and maintain them.
Not at all sure that it is useful or feasible, but it is certainly more
interesting that adding more Ann Arbor lines.
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janc
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response 29 of 78:
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Jul 9 16:36 UTC 1999 |
Actually, it would be an interesting idea for "the future of Grex".
Establish presences in other cities, maybe focusing at first on places
like Madison, Ithaca, and Austin. Not the major metropolises where
there are already so many services available, and not the small towns
where it would be hard to find a large enough core of people who'd be
interested in doing something like this, but the medium-sized college
communities.
It'd be challenging to try to make this work. We'd need to recruit
people in those places to seed things, and we'd need to raise seed money
to start setting things up. We'd need to find ways to do more of our
governance on-line so that we could involve people at remote sites.
You'd need to do better publicity than we ever have before to attract
users in those new cities. But it's been a while since Grex faced any
challenges. It could make Grex more fun to try something new.
It's kind of sad that the whole Grex/Arbornet concept never made it out
of Ann Arbor, and isn't very well known to the rest of the Internet.
This could be a way to push the concept of open access systems to a new
level.
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jazz
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response 30 of 78:
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Jul 9 16:49 UTC 1999 |
In the case of the WELL, it did.
The WELL changed considerably more with the times, however.
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aruba
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response 31 of 78:
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Jul 9 17:24 UTC 1999 |
The WELL was always a for-pay system, though, which attracts a different set
of people than Grex/Arbornet has.
While still considering the notion of setting up phone lines in other cities,
maybe it would make sense to set up whole other conferencing systems in other
cities. Perhaps Grex could loan money to make that possible. In the end it
might be good for us (not to mention good for the world in general) for Grex
to have more peers.
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albaugh
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response 32 of 78:
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Jul 9 17:27 UTC 1999 |
Just for the sake of being idiotic, what would the cost of having an 800
number be?
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mcnally
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response 33 of 78:
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Jul 9 18:27 UTC 1999 |
Depenmds on how many people call it..
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drewmike
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response 34 of 78:
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Jul 9 18:29 UTC 1999 |
And how long they call. If someone calls Grex now, and doesn't terminate the
call properly, it's a hassle for Grex. If it were a toll-free number, it would
be an expense as well as a hassle.
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albaugh
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response 35 of 78:
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Jul 9 18:41 UTC 1999 |
Well, "what if" there were one & only one grex 800 number for outstate modem-
bound people to call. So only one person at a time could use it, and would
be on as long as their session lasted. What would the cost be? Could grex
set a limit on session length for the 800 number? Etc...
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scg
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response 36 of 78:
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Jul 9 18:56 UTC 1999 |
I'm under the impression that the going rate for 800 numbers is something like
8 cents a minute at this point. It can get somewhat cheaper with really high
volume.
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scott
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response 37 of 78:
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Jul 9 19:47 UTC 1999 |
Let's see, $0.08 x 60 min/hour x 24 hour/day = $115.20 a day, assuming full
use (which is pretty likely).
I think this topic came up because somebody suggested Grex needed more dialins
without actually checking to see if that was true.
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jep
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response 38 of 78:
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Jul 9 21:01 UTC 1999 |
If anyone had asked Grex for help in setting up a conferencing system
like this one, I'd be in favor of helping them. I'd think aruba's
suggestion of loans was at least worth considering. It's a *lot* of
work to set up a system like this, and beyond that it's even more work
to run it, fund it, help all the users, etc. If a loan and some advice
and moral support would help get the job done, I'd want to see Grex do
what it could.
However, there have been no requests, or even any speculations such as
"Sure would like to do something like Grex in Anchorage". On the
Internet, it doesn't matter where you are. We can serve Anchorage, have
an Anchorage conference, and have the users come in to here, using the
resources we already have, without bothering with another system,
another staff, another Board, another office, more phone lines and
Internet connections and all that. I don't see how it benefits Grex, or
users in Anchorage, or anyone at all, to have us remotely put up a
system in Anchorage and try to make sure someone there administers it
and funds it and runs it. It's easier, cheaper, more reliable (we've
been doing it for most of a decade, and almost 2 decades if you count
M-Net), and generally better all around to just keep it all here.
I'm not opposed to other systems. I'm just not wildly enthusiastic
about Grex spending much time/effort/money in getting other systems set
up, until and unless people in other places take the initiative to set
them up. *Then* we can help them.-
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danr
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response 39 of 78:
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Jul 9 21:30 UTC 1999 |
It might be that we missed our window of opportunity to set up POPs in other
locales.
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richard
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response 40 of 78:
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Jul 9 22:00 UTC 1999 |
The thing is that while grex is getting in a financially strong position,
it is not attracting *that* many more active users. The conferences
overrall level of activity is I would imagine fairly stable, whereas to
achieve grex's true potential, you need more people participating. How do
you *get* more people?
One way is to put dialins in other locations, so that Grex can develop a
broader base than it has. If people can dialin as opposed to using up
time on their ISP to telnet here, they will be more likely to come. It
would foster the idea that grex is more than a local ann arbor bbs.
Another way would be to get a new ISP offering better connections and
bandwith so people do graphics on confs and in their homepages. As long as
grexis text only, there is a signficant segment of people who wont ever
bother coming here.
If grex has succeeded at what it is, the challenge is to see if it can
grow from there.
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jazz
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response 41 of 78:
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Jul 9 22:12 UTC 1999 |
It's been my understanding, which is admittedly a layperson's
understanding, that GREX is a commercially viable entity because primarily
of the consistent contributions of a group of core members whov'e been with
GREX since day one. Arbornet has lost most or all of it's original members
and no longer has any core at all, which may explain why Arbornet is no longer
financially viable.
In order to expand GREX, it would seem necessary to redefine the kind
of business, and the types of services offered.
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lilmo
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response 42 of 78:
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Jul 9 22:31 UTC 1999 |
Re resp:40 - Golly! For once, I find myself not only not annoyed by
rchard, but indeed pleased at the cogent and coherent explanation he's given.
And some ppl say that there's no such thing as miracles! :-)
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