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| Author |
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| 18 new of 191 responses total. |
keesan
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response 174 of 191:
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Feb 24 23:17 UTC 2013 |
Roger finally got the table saw working (from various parts - Jim had
collected 4 motors, various bases, etc.) and it needs adjusting. One of the
four motors was a mouse house and the wires got nibbled - saws should not be
stored in open sheds. The mounting plate has a large door hinge in it, and
some large bolts. The base is smaller than the saw but they will be bolted
together. This will let Roger make jamb extensions and it might work better
than his chop saw, which was adjusted to 90 degrees and was cutting at a
larger angle. I noticed that a 13.5 inch board was 1/4" short along one side
and when I measured the angles were off. Adjusting the chop saw one degree
fixed the problem. Never assume things work.
We should probably start hooking up the wires in the junction boxes
since we will need tomorrow (daylight) for the electric panels if TS
does not have time to help with them. The porch light circuit is off because
the other light circuits are off and it is hooked to what was the downstairs
circuit and will be the upstairs circuit (for lights) and we don't have the
new downstairs circuit even wired to the panel. We can plug in a light on
the porch, I suppose.
I would like to go home and cook supper before 9 pm but we can't always
have what we want.
It is a balmy 48 F inside today because it is over freezing out.
Feels much warmer than a normal house does at 55 because the walls are about
room temperature.
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keesan
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response 175 of 191:
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Feb 25 13:46 UTC 2013 |
We wired up two of the three junction boxes and started putting on the
covers. The boxes are right up against eacah other and the covers are
wider/higher than the boxes. Roger put on the middle cover overlapping the
left one and the right one over the middle one and I am going to make him take
off two of the boxes and move them slightly apart so things fit right.
Yesterday did not go well. I was too tired to cook and then woke up at 3 am
too hungry to sleep. Tonight I will try to cook for a few days. (If I don't,
Jim just eats ice cream). Jim has been making me breakfast and packing
lunches for us both. Roger only eats meat and avoids carbs (except for donuts,
cookies, cake, and ice cream) and we cook vegetarian but since Jim has been
redistributing Friday leftovers from the Salvation Army food program, he
sometimess gets cooked meat which he saves for Roger (and mixes with lettuce
so he will at least get a few vitamins).
I got back to sleep for two hours and woke up hungry and also coughing but
the show must go on. Today we are supposed to start at 10 am and end by 6
pm so I can have supper and try to get some sleep before tomorrow's
inspection. We need to decide where to put the water heater and expansion
tank and water filter and relay and timers so we can wire for them.
The relay box gets connected to the power for the water heater, then feeds
the water heater, and is wired to the 24-hour timer which is powered by the
upstairs light circuit and controlled by a toggle switch and two minute
timers (any of which can turn on the relay if the 24-hour timer is at 11 pm
to 7 am or 'on').
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keesan
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response 176 of 191:
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Feb 25 17:38 UTC 2013 |
This morning we discussed where to put the water heater etc. and took
measurements (Jim will draw it up) and now Roger is moving the three junction
boxes so the covers do not hit each other. Not an easy job.
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keesan
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response 177 of 191:
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Feb 25 20:34 UTC 2013 |
Junction boxes are done except for replacing the supply wire to one of the
lighting circuits, the first one we ran to the breaker box, accidentally using
12-2 instead of 14-2. This is legal but inconsistent and confusing, also the
wire is a bit too short so the ground would not reach the top screw of the
added ground bar.
Our half a roll of 14-2 was a few feet too short (as we learned after pulling
it through) so we took it out and will buy a new roll.
Pulled 12-2 through for the upstairs west thermostat (and figured out where
to drill through walls and floor to reach the heater) and now doing the same
on east side - managed to reuse holes. Thermostat to heater (twice) will
require creative routing through the walls, ceiling and floor, new holes.
It is helpful to have daylight upstairs but Roger is using a trouble light
in the crawlspace to carry the wires through the crawlspace, staple them along
joists, and then run through cellar (under porch) to breaker box (on porch).
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keesan
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response 178 of 191:
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Feb 26 00:07 UTC 2013 |
Three more heating circuits wired (except for thermostats and heaters).
The next door neighbor stopped by and ended up helping adjust a saw base for
an hour. After we did 2 hours planning and 6 wiring. Typical day.
I have been sweeping up piles of saw dust all over the place - it looked like
a lot of ants got loose in a sandy field. I never knew what a house looked
like inside the walls before building one.
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keesan
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response 179 of 191:
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Feb 26 18:12 UTC 2013 |
The saw is no longer wobbling - one leg was adjusted longer than the others.
Still no inspector. We removed the 12-2 that should be 14-2 from the panel
and are about to reuse the wire in several short runs between upstairs
outlets that go through the floor to go under doors, then in conduit behind
the door trim (rabbetted, which means a notch in the side, rather than dadoing
behind it). We will leave the ends free to put into upstairs outlets another
year, but the wires have to go in this year so we can put up ceiling.
There is a problem pulling a wire through an angle with a board in the way
and the hole already has two wires in it and is tight we another hole may be
needed... (ROger says it is going now, he scared the hole and it is letting
him go through).
How late do inspectors work? It is already 15 min past lunch hour ;=)
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keesan
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response 180 of 191:
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Feb 27 00:37 UTC 2013 |
The inspector showed up and was wondering what he was supposed to inspect.
I was told to get a 'partial final' and he said that comes after rough
plumbing, wiring, and mechanical, and makes sure the holes in the walls for
those have not caused problems. He explained where to put firestop, and
thought we ought to add more fasteners to hold the joists to the studs but
after he left Jim said we had already put twice as much as needed in the form
of ring-shank long stainless nails. He admired our soundproof room and took
a photo, and was very friendly and helpful and said he would talk to the
building official and tell him we were making progress. And it was okay to
put plastic over the inside of the porch screen door to keep the porch dryer
and wondered why we were required to finish the porches in December.
Then we planned out how to do the rest of the upstairs outlets and ran one
wire and it started sleeting and Roger left while the driving was still
possible and may take tomorrow off. Jim and I need to decide just where some
outlets go so we know where ot make holes in the floor.
We put the end of a wire to a future smoke detector into a wiremold box, with
wire nut on each wire to make it all safe. We removed the 12-2 that was there
instead of a 14-2 and discovered it got ripped in the process and could only
be reused in two shorter pieces.
We do not need the wallboard inspected unless it is a 'rated' wall in an
apartment building or commercial building but he kindly listened to us tell
of our experiences cutting the board. He was properly impressed with the
stainless steel roof. Nice guy.
I get tomorrow off to do other things that need to be done because it will
be too snowy for Roger to drive from Chelsea. The other things are important
but won't be fun - more details in a few months.
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keesan
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response 181 of 191:
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Feb 27 04:21 UTC 2013 |
We fixed up the CAD drawings for heat and outlets - lots of changes. The
'bedroom' upstairs (half of which is labelled laundry) now has two AFCI
circuits (shared with two other spaces), two laundry outlets next to the sink
that are GFCI (one will have a GFCI outlet) fed from the panel, which feed
the downstairs laundry circuit, and one refrigerator outlet (fed from the
downstairs refrigerator outlet - it would have been more direct to feed the
upstairs one first). I hope this is code. You need GFCI next to sinks. We
could view that end of the room as a kitchen. Refrigerators within 6' of
sinks are supposed to be plugged into GFCI outlets, which are not good for
refrigerators so they made an exception for refrigerators in kitchens.
It might be better to label that area as 'summer kitchen' instead. A kitchen
needs GFCI outlets over counters but since it is not a kitchen at the moment
there are no counters, however there are GFCI outlets over where there might
be counters next to the sink. If it is a bedroom we need AFCI outlets, which
I have at the other end of the room, to prevent fires in walls. Since the
outlets in the kitchen/laundry area will be on the surface, they can't cause
fires in walls. I might actually use that room as a kitchen, in which case
you need TWO kitchen circuits both GFCI, but one of them is a GFCI laundry
circuit. It could be a kitchen while I finish off the downstairs, then a
laundry to replace the downstairs laundry. If they object to the non-GFCI
outlet for the refrigerator (or freezer) I could move it to the other end of
the room. Hopefully they will accept this odd arrangement.
Major plan change - we had moved the bathtub (in the plans) to where the
downstairs bathroom freezer was supposed to go because the new code required
GFCI anywhere in a bathroom, and moved the freezer upstairs to the
bedroom/laundry/kitchen space. It was originally going in the cellar but that
also needs GFCI outlet (below grade). Just noticed from Roger's measurements
that the new bathtub spot is only 28" wide and bathtubs are 32". We could
narrow the door from 32 to 30", or put the bathtub back where it used to be
and the water heater where the freezer was going to go. Where the bathtub
used to go is under a sloping ceiling and a tall person won't be able to
shower very comfortably but they can shower standing over the floor drain
instead. Or we could omit the bathtub and have a shower.
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jep
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response 182 of 191:
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Feb 28 04:02 UTC 2013 |
You should only need 1 GFCI plug on a circuit. It will shut off the
whole circuit if there's a short.
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keesan
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response 183 of 191:
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Feb 28 14:09 UTC 2013 |
Yes, the first one in series should be GFCI.
The inspector wants us to add some very large screws, but Jim called the nail
company and the stainless ring-shank nails we used to attach the band joists
can hold 568 lb each (shear strength) which is about 4600 lb per joist, 10'
long and 16" apart. We did our original calculations assuming the stainless
nails had the same strength as plain steel ones, and they are even stronger,
and we doubled the required number of nails from 2 to 4 every 16". Jim phoned
the manufacturer. They now make spiral shank nails even stronger.
Yesterday was a snow day for Roger, today may also be, leaving us time to work
on drawings and other urgent paperwork. We goofed off last night - went to
a lecture on history of trumpets - and I was able to sleep 7 hours instead
of 5-6. Got to get back to the paperwork.
A neighbor from a few blocks away emailed that he shoveled my walk yesterday,
also that of my next door neighbor (who was going to shovel mine) and an older
neighbor on the corner whose snow we usually shovel. Last time this neighbor
came to shovel, my other next door neighbors had beaten him to it. Jim's next
door neighbors (two boys) had done his walk so we did a few other walks. A
LOT of people simply left all the slush on their walks yesterday, which will
freeze to solid ice this week and make transportation really difficult.
Branches down all over due to the weight of t he wet snow.
Bathtubs are 30 not 32, but we also need 3/4" for wall surface and something
hopefully for door trim. The other end of the bathroom is 33" wide. Moving
the bathtub means also moving the timers, and a longer plumbing run of copper
but shorter of drain PVC.
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keesan
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response 184 of 191:
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Feb 28 16:41 UTC 2013 |
We have two light switches in metal gang boxes with nailing (screwing)
brackets on the sides, which are too shallow. Can't find similar deeper ones
- the brackets for what we found attach to the fronts not the sides of the
studs, and wrap around them, and our studs in that location are sideways.
Jim suggested hammering the brackets flat, but then they would still get in
the way of the wallboard (cement not drywall).
We can use the blue plastic boxes, 4x4, but I would prefer narrower metal
single-gang.
We have two 3.5" deep metal gang boxes not designed to screw to a stud -
the screws connecting the sides to the tops get in the way, but we could carve
out a bit of wood for the screws, take the boxes apart, attach the sides, then
put them back together. Take off the side not attached to the stud because
the screw on the attached side will be embedded.
These are 'old work' boxes with ears that can be attached to the wallboard,
so we could temporarily attach them to something else (turn 90 deg and screw
to a stud?).
Next problem - there will not be enough headroom for a shower if we move the
tub to where the door does not hit. One option is to put a separate shower
where the tub was going to be, in which case we need to move the water heater,
maybe to the cellar, losing its heat in winter. Another option is to shower
sitting down on a shower seat, or standing over the floor drain in the middle
of the floor and using a handheld shower head.
Roger and Jim are discussing how to run the plumbing from cellar to upstairs.
We had three holes for this purpose in an exterior wall shaft, and used one
for wiring instead already. I lean towards water heater in bathroom and
shower seated in tub, or in mid floor, with hand-held shower head.
There will be an upstairs bathroom some day with lots of room to stand up in
the tub. The downstairs bathroom is supposed to be handicap accessible thus
the shower-in-middle-of-room (sitting in wheelchair if necessary).
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keesan
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response 185 of 191:
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Mar 1 01:22 UTC 2013 |
Jim is researching rules about height of ceiling above tub. Michigan
residential code does not mention any, but some places required 80" or 5'6"
above the tub floor. Or a 24x30" area a certain height. Where we might put
mine is half slanty overhead but I could easily shower sitting. Or standing
over the floor drain with a hand-held shower. Jim wants me to not have a tub
or shower stall. I had no tub in my apt for 28 years. Actually he wants me
to have one only upstairs - I don't know when I will ever have the energy to
finish the upstairs. Or whether I will have the strength to climb the stairs
by then.
A shower stall is now required to be 30x30" or even larger, or if 25" in one
direction at least 1300 sq in. Inside dimension. With 22" opening.
Bathtubs have to have temperature limited to 120F. I have a mixing valve left
over from dialysis that lets you choose your own temperature, which I hope
is acceptable, so that I can set it lower.
We are done running wires to upstairs - what is left can go along the ceiling
and walls, and through walls. Downstairs we need to put thermostats in two
walls which are not yet built, and find a way to run wire to outlets along
the exterior walls from the interior walls, or a crawlspace junction box, in
two rooms. And replace a bunch of electrical boxes with bigger ones.
And decide where the bathtub and water heater are going so we can wire for
the water heater with relay and various timers.
We need to put in upstairs GFCI bath and laundry outlets so that the
downstairs ones which they feed will work, in electric boxes which go on walls
which are not yet there.
The inspector wants some engineer to approve our stainless ring-shank nails.
Or make us put two large screws in between two nails near the ends of studs
which might split from all the fasteners, which nails are 3" apart.
I got back by 8 pm and had time to cook and eat supper. ;=)
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slynne
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response 186 of 191:
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Mar 1 01:44 UTC 2013 |
Sounds like you are making good progress!
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keesan
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response 187 of 191:
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Mar 1 02:02 UTC 2013 |
Nice to know at least two people are still reading this.
Jim drew me a ledger, which is a board nailed or screwed against a wall or
joist that something else sits on, which means if you put a lot of weight on
what sits on it, the joist can pull the top of the ledge away from what it
is attached to, therefore you need screws. We don't have ledgers so should
not need screws. Jim's next idea is to call the company that makes the joist
hangers and see if they have any approved constructions, then email his nephew
the structural engineer.
I researched live and dead weights. 40 psf (pounds per square foot) for
non-sleeping rooms. Our nails can hold 300 psf. LiveDead load - use actual
figures. Wall - with cement board both sides, about 3 lb/sf. Wall over
joists supporting bathroom - 5x8' = 40x3 = 120 lb. Floor over joists
supporting bathroom - maybe 4 lb/sf (includes wood as well as tile and cement
board). A 5' wide room with joists at 16" has about 4 joists. 50 sf floor
= 200 lb. So 120 lb wall, 200 lb floor, on 4 joists that have nails in them
that can support about 4600 lb per joist, or 20,000 lb. Add in a cast iron
tub full of water at 700 lb, about 1000 lb. The inspector wants two screws
with shear strength about 1200 lb each instead of four nails at 550 lb each.
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tod
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response 188 of 191:
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Mar 1 05:04 UTC 2013 |
those stainless nails sound pretty strong for nailing up, jesus...what's
the problem
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keesan
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response 189 of 191:
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Mar 1 16:02 UTC 2013 |
The problem is that code now requires screws not nails for ledgers and these
are technically ledgers. Ledgers are normally boards that something else
rests on top of and thus the tops could be pulled away from what they are
attached to. Ours cannot because there are joists holding them in place.
The Fastenmaster company tech support said NOT to use Ledgerlok because they
will split the 2xs, they are only for girders, but we could use Headlok which
are skinnier and longer. He thought we would need 3 instead of 2 screws.
The comparative strength is 226 vs 233, which is nearly identical, so i asked
the inspector if we could use two of these. Tech support said to predrill
though the website says not to bother.
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keesan
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response 190 of 191:
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Mar 1 18:40 UTC 2013 |
Three of us spent the morning debating where to put water heater and bathtub.
We could move a doorway 1.5" and narrow it 2" and put the bathtub where you
can legally stand up in it but that reduces wheelchair access, so we decided
to leave it under the slope where it is legally a bathtub not a shower and
then our architect advised against this because it would require a plumbing
wall sitting on top of the floor membrane so she wants to rush out tomorrow
and help with the decision. So we got nothing built today. If we move the
tub we have to rewire between two timers and decide where to put the relay
again and maybe build another wall. Easier to move a doorway? Remove two
studs and add one stud.
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keesan
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response 191 of 191:
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Mar 1 23:05 UTC 2013 |
I think we will try to saw off two 2-stud posts and move them over, AFTER
unwiring a light, two switches, removing wires from holes (moving a hole too),
redoing the top of the door opening, adding two more studs to the side of the
door.... A few days' work but it puts the bathtub in the right place and
makes plumbing and water heater wiring better and easier after that. This
gives us 31 inches of wall plus 1" of doorjamb for 30" of bathtub.
Roger says you can't put a bathtub where someone can reach a light switch or
outlet while standing in the tub (even with GFCI?) and is not sure whether
it is legal to reach one if you are using a hand-held shower, and in any event
you should not be getting them wet.
Planning further ahead would have saved a lot of time.
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