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| 25 new of 219 responses total. |
kami
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response 161 of 219:
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Nov 24 04:57 UTC 1996 |
I suppose I can't argue with that, but it does impoverish the discussion,
not to have your viewpoint and information.
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jazz
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response 162 of 219:
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May 3 14:14 UTC 2003 |
No wonder you take dumps in party all the time, Spanky.
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kami
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response 163 of 219:
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May 5 03:33 UTC 2003 |
Jazz- did you get her by accident? Your most recent comment seems remarkably
irrelevant.
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jazz
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response 164 of 219:
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May 5 17:22 UTC 2003 |
That wasn't supposed to be posted in this item, but rather in a post
in agora ... I'm not sure if it's me being seriously confused, or PicoSpan
being seriously confused, though.
It is, however, the only commentary in this conference. :)
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kami
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response 165 of 219:
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May 6 06:57 UTC 2003 |
That's true. I wonder if the original item was an attempt to find out
what good books everyone has, or what. It's been dead for so long.
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jazz
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response 166 of 219:
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May 6 13:05 UTC 2003 |
Don't feel like reading back through it, either?
I still know several people practicing in the magickal traditions
these days, but, with a few exceptions, it seems to be much more low-key,
and I'm not sure why.
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kami
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response 167 of 219:
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May 7 01:14 UTC 2003 |
Nah. Not that interesting, I guess.
Is it?
I guess people are more involved with, or at least more interested in
discussing, political and economic issues. Although, I'd like to see us more
connected, more committed to preserving civil liberties and the like, since
we are certainly potential targets for the voices of repression.
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jazz
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response 168 of 219:
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May 11 14:10 UTC 2003 |
Ten years ago I would agree strongly with that position. Undoubtedly
it's the crowd that I associate with (where homosexuality and strong political
views of any stripe is accepted with open arms), but I haven't seen any
anti-Pagan prejudice, and it's almost hard to believe that it still exists
nowadays.
I know that can't be, and isn't, everyone's experience, however.
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kami
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response 169 of 219:
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May 14 02:34 UTC 2003 |
If you follow the news- both mainstream press, and specialized outlets such
as "witch vox", it becomes apparent that, from the moment the current
administration took office, they began trying to dismantle gay rights,
religious diversity,etc. Thing is, sometimes they use the language of the
left to further their agendas; currently, in order not to lose certain federal
funding, schools must have a policy that "neither promotes nor discourages"
prayer or religious activity. This is intended to insure, particularly, that
"student led" prayer cannot be limited. I don't recall the exact wording, but
it also makes it difficult for a teacher to run a comparative-religions unit,
or to take a field trip, for example, to the Buddhist Temple.
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jazz
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response 170 of 219:
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May 14 13:32 UTC 2003 |
I didn't have the impression that Bush was able to do a very good job
of that, though. I know that he hasn't, despite trying, been able to make
a significant dent in any gay marriage states, or, outside of proposing a
voucher program that didn't meet with sufficient approval, religious education
of religions other than his own.
What are you talking about the wording of, in #169? The rider about
neither promoting or discouraging?
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kami
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response 171 of 219:
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May 16 02:34 UTC 2003 |
I hope you're right about Bush's lack of success. Someone pointed out that
Mr. Democrat Clinton did little to slow down the agenda of the religious
right, so perhaps Christian Bush will have as little success furthering it...
>What are you talking about the wording of, in #169?
Possibly mixing two bits of information; one is about a peice of federal
legislation aimed at creating a chink for school prayer to weasel in. The
other is in a Grand Rapids area policy that is already in effect== the lines
about teachres "neither promoting nor discouraging" student religious
activity. I don't recall from the article whether that policy is in accord
with the Federal one, or not.
One concern; Bush seems to like "executive orders" as a way around congress.
Which leaves his successor to countermand them, I guess.
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jazz
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response 172 of 219:
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May 16 15:15 UTC 2003 |
I'm not a big fan of the "don't ask, don't tell" brand of legislation,
which I'd consider the "neither encourage nor discourage" wording to be a part
of, but it does serve a useful purpose. While it doesn't safeguard open
freedoms, it can be used as a powerful tool to protect private freedoms.
And what about National Prayer Day falling almost on May Day? Mayybe
Bush is a closet Irish-Celtic pagan. Though I'd hate to think what that'd
say about the Irish-Celtic.
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kami
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response 173 of 219:
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May 16 18:05 UTC 2003 |
>I'm not a big fan of the "don't ask, don't tell" brand of legislation
Fits in perfectly with Bush's brand of "corporate takeover" autocratic
leadership.
And what about National Prayer Day falling almost on May Day?
Oh, I missed that one. I think we *should* get out and pray- in public- with
a maypole and bonfire, lots of chanting and dancing and incense... <eg>
Seriously- Christianity has been co-opting pagan holidays since it began.
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jazz
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response 174 of 219:
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May 16 21:52 UTC 2003 |
I prayed that he leaves office peacefully soon, personally ...
It does bug me that it's obvious he's declaring holidays to support
things in his personal agenda, but nobody seems to know about them, and fewer
seem to care. :)
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kami
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response 175 of 219:
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May 18 03:24 UTC 2003 |
Is anyone else reading this thing?
I mean, I'm enjoying the conversation, but it's open to more than just us two.
<sigh>
Well, that's just the point; is Bush's "personal agenda" really in line with
a majority of the country, or is there just a "mouthy minority" which are
getting an outsized degree of influence because they care enough to push their
agenda, by legitimate or covert means, while the rest of us shrug and wait
for someone else to fix it? The loss of civil liberties, the loss of civil
public discourse through the media, the narrowing of our cultural and
educational diversity- these aren't pagan issues, they're *American* issues.
I'd like to feel proud of this country, not worried and disillusioned.
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robh
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response 176 of 219:
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May 18 11:53 UTC 2003 |
(I'm reading it, just don't feel the need to say anything. I rant
too much about this subject IRL.)
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cyklone
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response 177 of 219:
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May 18 11:57 UTC 2003 |
I'm reading . . .
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jazz
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response 178 of 219:
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May 18 17:01 UTC 2003 |
Well, I think with this crowd, you're likely to get a lot of assent
to that sentiment. I do think that Bush's agenda, political views aside, is
not as moderate as a candidate elected (or not elected) by such a slim
margin should dictate. But I wouldn't agree with a strongly conservative
candidate's agenda if he (and it would be a he) were elected by a landslide,
either.
What disturbs me the most is how Bush's agenda has been breaking the
back of the protest movements in America. Bush has managed to earn the
title of the most protested person in recorded history, and yet has
completely shrugged it all off, and that really has broken the spirit of a
lot of activists.
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jazz
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response 179 of 219:
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May 18 17:08 UTC 2003 |
Another rant about activism: Why is it that a lot of activists
practice the same tactics that they claim to hate? It's endlessly annoying
to me to see, to take one recent example, a friend protesting a golf club's
all-male roster, and then protesting theproposed inclusion of transsexuals
in a women-only music festival.
</rant>
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otter
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response 180 of 219:
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May 18 17:52 UTC 2003 |
...reading with interest...
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cmcgee
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response 181 of 219:
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May 19 17:11 UTC 2003 |
I'm reading too.
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kami
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response 182 of 219:
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May 23 02:50 UTC 2003 |
Gee, I'm glad to see so many familiar faces. So-- speak up! ;)
I'm sad to hear that activists are being dragged down. What a wonderful
opportunity to re-energize a movement which has become somewhat perfunctory.
Perhaps it's just a change in personel: the easily intimidated folks will go
away, and more committed people will get involved. My sense was that the time
to protest the war in Iraq, for example, was even more important *after* Bush
declared victory-- to keep the inevitable euphoria and sense of relief from
diffusing people's commitment to peace and justice.
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mooncat
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response 183 of 219:
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Jun 22 23:44 UTC 2003 |
Oh... I'm still here, sometimes. :)
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orinoco
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response 184 of 219:
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Jun 23 05:55 UTC 2003 |
I still peek my head in from time to time. After years and years as a
wannabe-pagan, I finally attended a few rituals this year, and I'm still
trying to figure out what I think, so maybe I'll even have something to say.
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kami
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response 185 of 219:
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Jun 25 23:47 UTC 2003 |
Hey! I miss you guys. Glad you're still around.
New adventure coming up- I'm moving to Florida for a year or so. So I'll get
to find out what Floridian pagans are like...:}
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