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| Author |
Message |
| 20 new of 169 responses total. |
scott
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response 150 of 169:
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Sep 12 00:12 UTC 2003 |
Re 148: You'll have to sort out the differing tenses in my vs. your arguments
to see why you're full of shit.
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lk
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response 151 of 169:
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Sep 12 12:49 UTC 2003 |
Speaking of "full of shit", Scott, I didn't put words in your mouth,
I posed questions to you.
What's typical is that you have no answers.
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scott
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response 152 of 169:
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Sep 12 12:55 UTC 2003 |
From Leeron's #146:
So what does Scott suggest?
He's against Israel going in and confronting Hamas.
He's against "assassinations" of Hamas leaders.
That's NOT putting words in my mouth?
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gelinas
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response 153 of 169:
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Sep 12 13:59 UTC 2003 |
(You meant something different by #140 and #145, Scott?)
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scott
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response 154 of 169:
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Sep 12 18:36 UTC 2003 |
(I didn't assert a position in 140 & 145, just pointed out the stupidity of
claiming to "confront Hamas directly")
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rcurl
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response 155 of 169:
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Sep 12 18:42 UTC 2003 |
I think that even looking upon defending ourselves agaiinst terrorists
as a "war" is stupid. There are literally potentially more of them than
there are of us. Attacking terrorists probably creates more than doing so
kills. I think the best "attack" against terrorists is to gain the support
of the peoples from which they come, so that internal attitudes and pressures
make the breeding of terrorists less palatable.
Creating conditions so that the Palestinians saw more benefit in preventing
terrorism against Israel than in supporting it would over time solve the
problem.
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klg
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response 156 of 169:
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Sep 12 19:56 UTC 2003 |
Alright. Now, if you would, please give us a prescription for the real
world.
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rcurl
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response 157 of 169:
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Sep 12 21:10 UTC 2003 |
Increase aid to Palestine. Hold Israel more accountable of attacking suspected
guerillas (it just makes more) by withholding aid if they do that. Consider
Palestine as worthy of "nation building" as Iraq.
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klg
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response 158 of 169:
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Sep 13 01:05 UTC 2003 |
Oh, please! Those are not serious proposals for the real world.
As we believe you previously admitted with respect to the dictator
Saddam, aid to the PLO goes right into Arafat's bank account.
And, how does the U.S. tell Israel not to fight terrorists when we have
pledged to do the same. Self defense is the right of every country.
Furthermore, Iraq did not become worthy of "nation building" until its
strong-man dictator was deposed, just as is the case with the West Bank
Arabs.
Would you care to try again?
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rcurl
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response 159 of 169:
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Sep 13 05:12 UTC 2003 |
No. They are serious proposals. The aid to Palestine should be committed
solely toward nation building (!). There is some price that will buy the
Palestinian action to suppress its terrorist subculture (and for much less
than 87 billion to Iraq, and much more worthwhile). Then the US tells
Israel to cool it by halting military aid if they continue their attacks.
Together these will produce a progress.
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lk
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response 160 of 169:
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Sep 13 07:37 UTC 2003 |
00:10 U.S. Supreme Court justice says U.S. could learn from Israeli courts
on balancing war on terrorism, human rights
00:42 UN Security Council`s 15 member-nations warn Israel against carrying
out decision to expel Arafat
07:10 Arafat to thousands of Muqata supporters: `Martyrs we shall march,
in the millions, to Jerusalem`
08:45 Border Police uncover 3 suicide belts containing some 20 kg of
explosives in East Jerusalem village
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lk
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response 161 of 169:
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Sep 13 07:53 UTC 2003 |
Joe: I guess that after all the noise Scott makes, we finally learn that he
really hasn't said anything and no one should put words in his mouth or expect
him to respond to questions.
Rane:
> Creating conditions so that the Palestinians saw more benefit in preventing
> terrorism against Israel than in supporting it would over time solve the
> problem.
Perhaps you view "the problem" differently than they do.
From the perspective of the terrorists (and many Arabs), "the problem" is
that Israel exists. There's nothing that you can do to appease them. As
they themselves say, they are willing to "sacrifice" even their own children
for the cause of destroying Israel. You think you have something better to
offer them than martyrdom?
Which isn't to say that there aren't Arabs who think otherwise. There are
many of them. The problem is that they are marginalized by those in
power (even murdered).
> There is some price that will buy the Palestinian action to suppress its
> terrorist subculture (and for much less than 87 billion to Iraq....)
Really? Name it!
Recall that this violence came after the rejection of the Clinton compromise.
It offered:
1. An internationally recognized and independently sovereign Palestinian Arab
state.
2. Contiguous in Judea & Samaria (Trans-Jordan's former "West Bank")
3. Including ALL of Gaza.
4. And the Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem.
5. With some sort of shared sovereignty over the Temple Mount.
6. And the so-called "right-of-return" to the nascent state
7. Along with $30 Billion to resettle the "refugees".
It didn't even earn a counter-offer.
Arafat rejected Clinton, attempted to make a unilateral declaration of
independence -- establishing a state without making peace, so he could then
continue the "struggle" against Israel from this new base of operations.
Thwarted by world opinion, he re-turned to violence.
> Attacking terrorists probably creates more than doing so kills.
Experience shows that this is not true. Despite far-fetched notions in the
west that terrorism is a spur-of-the-moment thing (like, I woke up this
morning, made a farewell tape and then a powerful bomb hidden on a belt,
worked my way through heavy security to a target and blew up. Or I saved
my lunch money from yesterday, purchased an M16 rifle ($5000), got to
a bus station in Israel and started shooting).
No, terrorism is a well oiled machine. It requires lots of money (which
makes it ever more ironic that some people believe that poverty is a
"root cause" of terrorism), experts to make bombs and lots of other
support people.
When terrorists are attacked, not only do they lose their leaders (who
are often replaced by less competent lieutenants), but they have to go
on the run, go underground. Which makes it more difficult to recruit.
If your perception were accurate, Hamas should number 200,000
fighters. Yet it's only about 2,000. Islamic Jihad about 1,000.
The PFLP about 500.
> so that internal attitudes and pressures make the breeding of terrorists
> less palatable.
What could be worse than the present? Prior to the intifada, the Israeli
army had withdrawn from areas where 98% of the Arab population
resides. There was a 3-year economic recovery. Only a few thousand
people were on the welfare rolls (mostly elderly, widows or disabled).
As a direct result of terrorism, the Israeli army has moved back in, set
up roadblocks and curfews, and the economy is in shambles. UNRWA
is feeding 715,000 people, more than half the population.
And the response? We're willing to "sacrifice".
If they were interested in bettering their lives (rather than destroying
Israel), they could have chosen that road for more than half a century.
That isn't their calling. They're more concerned with the next "life".
If we want to look at this in a wider view, one could say that Coke,
McDonalds, and Levis won Eastern Europe and perhaps the far
east. But can they win the near east or is Islam the immovable wall?
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other
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response 162 of 169:
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Sep 14 22:46 UTC 2003 |
http://comics.com/editoons/day/archive/images/day2003016263912.gif
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lk
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response 163 of 169:
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Sep 15 07:25 UTC 2003 |
Is this a threat?
09:28 Hamas leader in Syria says EU committed `big mistake` by blacklisting
group as terror organization
(I'd have to dig up the exact wording, but earlier this year Hamas said that
if Canada(?) categorized them as a terrorist organization they would start
blowing up things....)
09:03 Fatah official says Ahmed Qureia will form a government by Saturday
Over the weekend, Israeli forces operating in the territories arrested
several wanted terrorist, including a bomb-maker, and seized several (4?)
suicide-bomb belts that had been distributed and were awaiting deployment.
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klg
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response 164 of 169:
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Sep 15 16:13 UTC 2003 |
Did any of those belts happen to be Arafat's size?
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tod
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response 165 of 169:
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Sep 15 16:27 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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russ
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response 166 of 169:
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Sep 16 01:09 UTC 2003 |
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/comics/archive/showComic.hts?date=20
03/9/13&name=Non_Sequitur&quality=g
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lk
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response 167 of 169:
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Sep 16 04:33 UTC 2003 |
00:08 U.S. federal judge orders Iran to pay more than $400 million to U.S.
victims of Jerusalem bombing
Once again we see that terrorism isn't an individual act but a well
oiled machine intent on killing innocent civilians.
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lk
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response 168 of 169:
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Sep 17 00:19 UTC 2003 |
With Hamas and other terror groups reeling from recent counter-terrorism
actions by Israel:
18:06 Senior IDF source says Palestinians inclined to abandon use of terror
18:08 Senior PA official Saeb Erekat: entire Palestinian leadership backs
proposal for general cease-fire with Israel
18:22 Meretz MK Ran Cohen: gov`t should examine PA cease-fire offer because
it`s not a temporary one
01:01 Jordan retracts decision to freeze accounts of six Hamas leaders
From:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/340848.html
...Jibril Rajoub, Yasser Arafat's national security advisor, was the first
to issue the [cease-fire] offer earlier in the day.
...Rajoub said Tuesday that the Palestinian leadership stands prepared to
declare an immediate, general cease-fire to end all acts of Palestinian
violence, providing that Israel agreed to halt military attacks against
Palestinians and remove its blockades over Palestinian areas.
Israeli officials were quick to dismiss the proposal, saying that
cease-fires had failed to end the fighting in the past, and that the
government stood by a decision not to agree to a further truce. They cited
a government statement last week, which said a truce was no substitute for
dismantling terrorist organizations.
Speaking to Israel Radio, Rajoub said the cease-fire would not be temporary,
as was the hudna - the truce declared by Palestinian militant groups earlier
this year - but would be a comprehensive, joint Israeli-Palestinian move to
pave the wave for peace talks toward a permanent agreement between the sides.
...Rajoub did not outline how the Palestinian Authority would reach a new
cease-fire deal with Hamas and Islamic Jihad - the two militant groups
responsible for most attacks on Israelis in the past three years. He also
did not say the Palestinian Authority would crack down on militant groups,
a U.S. and Israeli demand.
An Israeli government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
Tuesday that several truces had not ended the fighting. The official quoted
a security cabinet decision from last Thursday which says Israel will not
agree to any more cease-fires.
"The government of Israel rejects any idea of a cease-fire as a way of
dealing with terrorism. Terrorism will stop only with the dismantlement
and eradication of the terrorist organizations. This is the duty and the
responsibility of the Palestinian Authority and it will be judged only
according to deeds and results and not according to declarations and talk,"
the cabinet statement said.
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lk
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response 169 of 169:
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Sep 20 17:12 UTC 2003 |
17:19 IMF: Audit of PA reveals that Arafat diverted $900 million in
public funds to special bank account he controlled
12:14 World Bank representative in West Bank, Gaza: PA needs at least
$1 billion annually to keep economy going
Maybe they should ask Arafat and his cronies to fund this?
16:49 U.S. to PA: New PM must take control of security forces,
will not back gov`t that does not act against terror groups
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