response 17 of 157:

Feb 5 17:46 UTC 2004

I don't remember anything about his "state of mind" that wasn't par for 
the course with people when relationships end, unfortunately.  It was 
nice to see him rebound from it so quickly.

Re jp2 "caring" about Grex, my impression is that much of what he does 
here is his gleeful way of making Grexers pay attention to him and get 
all in a tizzy over whatever issue he raises.  It is hilarious to watch 
everyone here fall for it, I must confess.  But he is also the sort of 
person who hates to ignored or disagreed with so much that he can't 
just leave it at that.  So what started as a joke, or a taunt, turns 
into a BFD.  After that, he can't help himself.  So yes, I guess you 
could say he does "care," in a certain sense.

Cy is another matter.  Either he cares deeply and sincerely about these 
issues, or else he is doing the best parody of [insert name of your 
favorite old-time querulous bbser here] I've ever seen.

response 19 of 157:

Feb 5 18:08 UTC 2004

MD is correct: I care very deeply about allowing the items to remain. I
put a great deal of time, effort and thought into my many posts (using a
pseudo). Jep even specifically mentioned my pseudo as someone who helped
him.  Those words were not just for him, though. They were for anyone who
could benefit from them. I know a great deal about the subject and I do
not want that information to disappear. I very much hope slynne will think
about that before she making any decision about changing her vote. 

In deference to slynne and twila, I will try to tone down the emotional
level of the conversation, while noting that jep himself appears to be
ramping it up in what is apparently a last ditch effort on his part to
prevail. And I do wish some of the other "anti-censors" would focus on the
facts and not the emotions. I do give some of them credit for having made
that distinction already.

As for keesan, I guess I am on her filter so perhaps someone she is not
filtering can reprint this for her: In my "Parodist's Reply" Item
(50-something I believe) I point out the error of using your personal
experience as a yardstick by which to make broader decisions affecting
many people. It is even more risky to use Jim's experience as such a
yardstick. I am quite certain there were many unique aspects of his case
that caused it to come out the way it did. I see very few parallels to
jep's situation. I see absolutely nothing that would cause him to lose his
children if his items were restored minus his own words. Perhaps aaron
will grace us with his quick overview and confirm this as well. Even if he
doesn't, keesan would do well to remember that JEP HIMSELF has said that
his concerns are NOT legal in nature and are NOT related to his divorce
case. 

I would very much appreciate a "no" vote on jep's request so that (1)
others can benefit from the collective wisdom found in his items and (2)
because it is the right thing to do in terms of supporting free and
uncensored speech.

response 21 of 157:

Feb 5 18:18 UTC 2004

I am not filtering cyklone.  

response 23 of 157:

Feb 5 18:37 UTC 2004

I only filter people who are trying to be obnoxious and one who is totally
unconcerned about typing/spelling quality.  I don't filter people for their
opinions.

response 25 of 157:

Feb 5 19:04 UTC 2004

I think it's funny that she filters tsty.

response 27 of 157:

Feb 5 19:37 UTC 2004

> From a personal point of view, it is mean-spirited and petty to retain
> these old details of people's lives on public display against their will
> just to prove a point.

That's crap.  There may be some here who are using this very serious issue
as an opportunity to be mean, but I reject the notion that wanting the items
restored to the position they would be had valerie and jep acted within the
bounds of what they were allowed to do (i.e. only scribble their own posts)
is "mean-spirited and petty", regardless of how "damaged" the items would be.
I'm not claiming that grex will be permanently damaged if the items aren't
restored or that an irreversible precent has been / would be set.  But to
flatly state that it's either "leave 'em deleted" or "admit mean-spiritedness"
is nothing more than a partisan campaign speech.

response 29 of 157:

Feb 5 22:30 UTC 2004

hmm
re:0
"They will be but the sad and tattered remains of their original
selves....LITTLE OF TRUE VALUE WILL HAVE BEEN SAVED..."
So the only true and valuable contributors to any conversation are the
ones who started the discussion?

I'd seen comments to both valerie and jep about posting such personal
details on the internet at the time.  If I remember correctly those
cautionary comments were scoffed at.
This is the internet people, it isn't some small closed tightly knit community.

I have no sympathy for someone who laughs at warnings and continues
blundering on their merry way, oblivious and deluded.

You say you didn't care then, but you care NOW?  After feeling the bite or
potential bite of the internet? You were cautioned, but did it anyway.  Any now
you are a crybaby?

What lesson have you learned here?  Just do what you want(post personal
details) in defiance of common sense and other people's concerns because
when it gets out of hand you can just go and obliterate everything that
was ever posted by AND about you?  You don't learn to think.  You won't learn
that actions have consequences.  Just take the easy way out and dont take
responsibility for anything you've posted.

response 31 of 157:

Feb 5 23:35 UTC 2004

That's what apologies are for.

response 33 of 157:

Feb 6 00:11 UTC 2004

Try getting someone to apologise to a person they don't like.

response 35 of 157:

Feb 6 00:17 UTC 2004

Trying to "get" someone to apologize is a losing battle. Either the person
who needs to apologize gets it on their own, and has the character to do
it regardless of their feelings, or they don't. It's called "character"
and "maturity." 

response 37 of 157:

Feb 6 00:23 UTC 2004

That's one of the hardest lessons of life to learn. Yes, we are *all* assholes
at some point in life, and true maturity comes from recognizing it, admitting
it to others and apologizing when necessary. 

response 39 of 157:

Feb 6 03:05 UTC 2004

Re #37: Speak for yourself.