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Grex > Coop9 > #20: 1996 Board Candidate Survey | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 94 responses total. |
rcurl
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response 15 of 94:
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Dec 6 16:20 UTC 1996 |
The money has not been the question. It has been the principle of being a
full participant in the purposes of the organization b ythe intangible act
of "being a member".
Incidentally, state law does not require that board members of non-profit
Michigan membership-based corporations be members. State law gives
organizations the freedom of defining this conditions for board members in
their bylaws. However the Grex bylaws do require that board members be
members, while being silent on the condition for candidacy.
Even if the Grex bylaws had never required membership for being a board
member, I would still support having such a condition in an organization
like Grex, which does not have paid staff. With paid staff, they run the
corporation, and the board is primarily a group of boosters that support
the organization by finding resources. However the Grex board runs Grex,
which is why I prefer to see their committment expressed in advance by
membership.
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kerouac
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response 16 of 94:
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Dec 6 16:35 UTC 1996 |
#15...yes, but where does it say that the definition of "being a full
participant in the purposes of the organization" is being a member?
Ibelieve that dues to grex are actually considered "donations"
Donations are defined as voluntary not mandatory. Maybe the question is
whether a Michigan non-profit can require "mandatory, rate-specific"
donations in exchange for services or participatory rights. Grex likely
needs to use the term "donations" to be in strictest compliance with the
laws, but we are realy talking about dues here. At a certain level, grex
charges fees for participatory membership, just as AOL or other "for
profits" do as normal course of business. I wonder if grex is violating
the spirit of the law by defining what amount of "donations" are
acceptable?
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rcurl
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response 17 of 94:
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Dec 6 23:26 UTC 1996 |
Dues are *legally* considered as donation to charitable organizations. Read
the IRS rules (in addition to the state laws). Grex charges no fees. The
(100% deductible donation) dues to most non-profits entitle the member to
receive certain minimum services. These services only must be subtracted
to find what's deductible if they are "substantial". That has, however,
never been defined for the services Grex reserves for members (for other
reasons) [and it doesn't matter, since Grex is not a federally recognized
tax-exempt organization].
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e4808mc
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response 18 of 94:
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Dec 7 04:03 UTC 1996 |
Asking kerouac to read the IRS rules is silly. He's already proven he can't.
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rcurl
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response 19 of 94:
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Dec 7 06:42 UTC 1996 |
(You didn't see the wry grin on my face when I wrote that.)
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tsty
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response 20 of 94:
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Dec 7 07:43 UTC 1996 |
#13 answers #14, in advance <g>.
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kerouac
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response 21 of 94:
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Dec 7 17:09 UTC 1996 |
#17...so legally, in order to deduct a one-year grex membership from
one's taxes, one must assess the monetary worth of what is offered by
grex in return and deduct that from the $60?
I think by *specifying* what amount of donation is acceptable, grex is
requiring a set sum for a service. That is a fee. Grex probably should
not have a minimum donation requirement (or a maximum one for that
matter)
Anyone who makes a donation, whatever the amount, is entitled to be a
member. I think thats the way most charitable organizations work. I
contribute to greenpeace for instance, but I dont think I
ve ever given the same amount every year and I dont think it has ever
mattered. I am a member of Greenpeace if I give money to support it.
Its easier for their recordkeeping purposes if you give a nice round
figure like $5 or $10 or $50, but if you give $1 or $4or $14, thats okay
too.
Grex should be satisfied with receiving monetary donations from its
users without specifying the amount one has to give.
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rcurl
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response 22 of 94:
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Dec 7 19:37 UTC 1996 |
No. AS I SAID, some level of services to members that are considered a
part of the corporate management and communications, may be given to
members without requiring a deduction from tax-exempt dues. A common
example is a newsletter, which is necessary for internal communcations.
However a "glossy" magazine that appears to serve the purpose of more
public communication, would be a service, the value of which would have to
be subtracted from the tax-exemption. That value is usually set at the
actual production cost, not at the potential profit-making "newsstand"
price.
Law permits the specification of a set (minimum) donation as dues to
receive membership rights and privileges. Your "point" is incorrect and
solely argumentative.
If Greenpeace has set its minimum dues donation at $1, that is its
privilege. I know several oranizations that have done that. Most do not.
There is a cost to "service" a membership, and organizations seek to
obtain in the dues money also to promote its purposes. Those that have
dues lower than that cost probably roll that cost into their promotion
budget, and seek financial support from less stingy "members".
If you think there should be no minimum dues, why don't you propose a
bylaws amendment to that effect?
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popcorn
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response 23 of 94:
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Dec 7 21:21 UTC 1996 |
He has to be a member to do that, Rane.
Richard, any donation of $6 or more can be counted toward membership.
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kerouac
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response 24 of 94:
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Dec 7 21:40 UTC 1996 |
#23...actually thebyalws are equally as va gue about who can
make a proposal as they are in terms of who can run for the board.
And suppose someone made a donation of $1 every month for six months,
meaning he has donated a total of $6..does he then get to e a member for
one month?
I could see witholding member services (telnet .etc) if someone doesnt
make a donation equal to a set minimum. But if one makes a donation at all,
he should be considered a member and have voting privileges. Seems fair./
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cmcgee
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response 25 of 94:
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Dec 7 22:42 UTC 1996 |
#21 of 24: by Richard Wallner (kerouac) on Sat, Dec 7,
1996 (12:09):
#17...so legally, in order to deduct a one-year grex membership from
one's taxes, one must assess the monetary worth of what is offered by
grex in return and deduct that from the $60.
As I understand it, Grex does not have tax-exempt status, and therefor NONE
of your membership is deductable from your taxes.
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rcurl
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response 26 of 94:
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Dec 7 23:42 UTC 1996 |
We've been talking a bit, previously, about the theoretical status of
dues/donations, etc. It has been noted several times that this does not
apply to Grex currently.
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janc
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response 27 of 94:
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Dec 8 04:32 UTC 1996 |
Would non-membership donations to Grex be tax-deductable?
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e4808mc
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response 28 of 94:
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Dec 8 05:59 UTC 1996 |
Nothing is tax deductible unless the organization you are giving it to has
IRS tax-exempt status. THis is entirely separate from being a non-profit.
Many non-profits are not tax-exempt. Being tax-exempt is having the famouns
501c(3) status. You send in a couple years of tax returns, a copy of your
incorporation papers, and your financial statements, along with an elaborate
form. The IRS mulls it over, and decides whether you get your 501c(whatever)
letter. Then, and only then, can people deduct their donations from their
tax return. Sometimes they decide you *don't* meet their guidelines, and you
*don't* get tax-exempt status. The 501c(whatever) are the numbers of the
critical sections and paragraphs of the tax code.
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rcurl
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response 29 of 94:
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Dec 8 06:54 UTC 1996 |
Sounds like you've been through the good-old 1023! I will add, they
practically always turn you done on the first pass with a lot of questions
to answer about why, how and for whom you are charitable.
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davel
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response 30 of 94:
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Dec 8 11:59 UTC 1996 |
I too was about to say Catriona should have said "The IRS mulls it over and
tells you you don't get your 501c(...) letter. Then if you feel up to it ..."
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rcurl
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response 31 of 94:
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Dec 8 17:26 UTC 1996 |
Now, why did my fingers produce done when I was thinking down? Doesn't sound
very Freudian....
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mta
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response 32 of 94:
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Dec 8 19:54 UTC 1996 |
re#31 because "w" and "e" are rightnext to each other on the keyboard?
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janc
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response 33 of 94:
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Dec 9 01:30 UTC 1996 |
One question for tsty:
You said
as soon as elected and i have become a member (again) grex *will*
take mastercard & visa donations.
I don't understand this. How will you becoming a member cause this to come
about?
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tsty
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response 34 of 94:
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Dec 9 05:15 UTC 1996 |
any board member can receive and transport/transmit donations to
the corporation. as a board member, individually, not only can i, but
i *WILL* receive and transport/transmit any donations by mastercard/visa
directly to the corporation unless there is a specific borg vote against
my unilateral action.
my offer as a"guest" has been "pocket vetoed" by previous incantations of borg.
as a board member i will NOT tolerate that. visa/mastercard *WILL* be accepted!
comments?
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janc
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response 35 of 94:
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Dec 9 06:25 UTC 1996 |
Questions:
- My understanding is that when someone pays you $60 via a visa
card, you don't get the full $60, but the bank keeps a percentage.
How would this be handled?
- Banks charge merchants to accept credit cards. I would tend to expect
that they would write regulations to disallow one merchant from accepting
charges for another, since that would open the door to people reselling
their banking services. I have no idea if such rules exist. Are you
sure you aren't exposing yourself to legal risk by doing this?
- If people used charge cards through such a scheme, I assume they'd
see tsty's company name on their credit card reciepts at the end of the
month. Would people be uncomfortable/confused by this?
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rcurl
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response 36 of 94:
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Dec 9 07:24 UTC 1996 |
It sure wouldn't be tax-deductible - IF it were tax deductible...
Re #32: I guess my fingers did the walking.
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mcpoz
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response 37 of 94:
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Dec 9 13:30 UTC 1996 |
I recently closed a Visa Merchant's account I had for a small business. It
specifically stated that I could not allow charges for other
activities/businesses through my Merchant's account.
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kerouac
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response 38 of 94:
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Dec 9 16:45 UTC 1996 |
so people would charge the member dues to TS Taylor, and TS would
write a check for them to grex? If he wants to do that, why not?
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janc
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response 39 of 94:
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Dec 9 16:59 UTC 1996 |
Another question for board candidates:
Do you think it would be good for Grex to seek 501(c)3 tax-exempt
status?
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