|
Grex > Classical > #45: Most Popular Classical Music - acquiring a basic LP collection | |
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 194 responses total. |
md
|
|
response 140 of 194:
| 
Feb 2 13:58 UTC 2000 |
Btw, I have the Haydn Variations by Toscanini
on LP and by Bernstein on CD. I like Toscanini
better, but the sound on the Bernsein DG CD is
spectacular.
|
keesan
|
|
response 141 of 194:
|
Feb 2 17:13 UTC 2000 |
No date on the Karajan but I have not found a record dated after 1978 at
Kiwanis yet. I also have Bruno Walter's 3rd and 4th Symphonies - and
Bernstein'a 4th and Karajan's 3rd.
Handel - Five choices on the Water Music. I think I will skip the arrangment
by Eugene Ormandy (on the same record as Sir Hamilton Harty's reorchestration
of Fireworks Music).
Leaving:
1. Vanguard quadraphonic, Augmented Wind Ensemble of the English Chamber
Orchestra, Johannes Somary, 'a suite drawn from the original version',
consisting of 11 pieces. 9 trumpets, soloist John Wilbraham.
2. Westminster Gold, stereo, Vienna State Opera Orchestra, Scherchen, 48
minutes of something unspecified. 'As basic sources we must acknowledge the
folloing: (five manuscripts). MCMLXX. This one seems to be the most
complete but neither on the jacket nor on the record is there any list of
movements.
3. Argo/Decca, 1972, Academy of St Martin-in-the-Fields, Neville Marriner
(who I read did not use period instruments then). Consisting of three suites,
in G, D and F, from one manuscript in the Fitzwilliam Museum.
Counting Menuet and Trio as two rather than one, there are 20 movements.
Fireworks Music on the same record.
4. MHS, digitally recorded, 1986 (I spoke too soon on dates above), Royal
Philharmonic under Yehudi Menuhin. Combined on one record with Fireworks
Music, Amaryllis Suite, but on the part of one side where it is located, they
fit in (in the arrangment by A. Baines) 13 movements. Nothing about original
instruments in any of the recordings.
Anthony Baines took the three suites and selected and edited and arranged them
to form a suite. His editing includes some alteration fo the original note
values and the addition of some ornaments and phrase markings. Baines himself
added optional timpani, trombone, flute, bassoon and clarinet parts, all of
which are used here.
Does MHS tend to use altered versions very often?
Any reason to keep anything but the Academy version?
One comment is that Handel might have composed various water musics at various
times and then got sort of confused together.
The only reference to period instruments is the Vanguard quadruphonic, in
which the augmented orchestra contains:
13 listed oboe players 'etc.', five bassoon players 'etc.' , two
contrabassoons, two serpents, lots of horns and trumpets. MCMLXXII
They chose to record only the best of the movements. 'it seems clear that
the Water Music was not all written at the same time and as one unit, why not
make up one's own suite as did Handel himself for a concert he conducted in
1741?' Possibly the D-Major movements were written in 1717 and the F-major
in 1715 for a different barge part. They 'utilize Handel's own magnificent
original scoring', including a harpsichord. Apparently only 2 oboes and one
bassoon were recorded in any one movement.
Please help me to choose two or three of these.
Back to the Brahms. I like all the versions and will have to listen more
closely.
|
keesan
|
|
response 142 of 194:
|
Feb 2 17:59 UTC 2000 |
The Hatry-Handel sounded like a large mostly string orchestra, with lots of
variations in dynamics and tempo. More 19th century than Baroque.
Ormandy-Handel sounded much the same. That record also had three movements
from a Corelli trio sonata played by a string orchestra, with lots of
variations in tempo and dynamics.
Vanguard quadraphonic is playing Royal Fireworks with mostly winds and
percussion, 24 oboes, 12 bassoons. (The Water Music used 2 bassoons).
I doubt the string version of Fireworks would have been audible above the
fireworks. (Were there actual fireworks)?
We have a quadraphonic receiver, but not turntable. The photo inside shows
half the players on a balcony. Does one put two speakers overhead?
|
keesan
|
|
response 143 of 194:
|
Feb 3 19:26 UTC 2000 |
It was an easy choice on Handel - the version with 24 oboes by English Chamber
Orchestra, and St. Martin in the Fields. The others did not sound a whole
lot like Baroque, more like late 19th century symphonies.
I found a few other oddities:
Chopin's piano pieces arranged for the Philadelphia Orchestra. The tunes
sounded a bit familiar but it was not an improvement.
Art of Fugue for woodwinds.
Bach's Trio Sonatas for a very loud pedal harpsichord by E. Power Biggs.
I have to choose a couple versions of Beethoven's 6th Symphony.
In rough chronological order:
1. Bruno Walter and Philadelphia Orchestra on nonbreakable vinylite, long
playing microgroove (as opposed to those large grooves on the breakable 78s)
Manufactured in Canada by Spartan of Canada, Limited, "Radio's Richest Voice".
(mono, of course. Columbia Masterworks. With notes about bubbling brooks.
When did Walter conduct Phila Orch?
2. William Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra. In stereo, with
multicolored cover (the last was pink on white). Original COMMAND master
recorded on 35 mm magnetic film. Command Classics. No notes except about
Steinberg, which imply this record is 1966 (early Stereo).
3. Quadraphonic (seventies?). Eugen Jochum and the London Symphony.
How many conductors have they had since 1950? Angel/EMI. 1978.
Notes about warm sunshine, gentle zephyrs, gurgle of brook, nightingale,
disappearing clouds, etc. EMI is a division of Capitol Industries. I have
a few old-looking records by Capitol.
4. Leonard Bernstein and Wiener Philharmonic on Deutsche Grammophon stereo
Trilingual notes that I can only read without my glasses. 1981.
Notes about the harmonies and motivic development.
5. Michael Tilson Thomas and English Chamber Orchestra (the same people who
brought us Handel in Quadraphonic with 24 oboes). 1979, CBS Masterworks.
Slightly worn but worth it. The notes ignore the bubbling brook, devote one
line to stabile [sic] tonalities, and several paragraphs to performance
practice. gut strings, lack of violin chin rests and cello spikes, pitch one
semitone lower, dotted-note rhythms.
Do these different approaches (emotional, rational, and technical) reflect
the attitudes of the composers, or simply fashions in playing?
I would probably keep the first (Walter) and the last two.
|
keesan
|
|
response 144 of 194:
|
Feb 3 20:38 UTC 2000 |
Jochum and the London Symphony I found rather dull.
Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony were too loud for my taste.
Found another gem.
Heritage of the Baroque Volume 1. The Telemann Society Orchestra.
Richard Schulze conductor, Theodora Schulze oboe and recorder.....
Playing:
Richard Schulze: Variations of "What're ye' goin' to do wi' a drunken sailo?
Richard Schulze, Recorder; Dorothy Walters, harpsichord.
This set of variations is built on a slight modification of the well known
folk tune. Schulze is a famous seventeenth [sic] century composer who was
born in 1928. [sic!] [So was he the composer, the recorder player, or the
conductor?]
The Fairchild combination stereo/monaural record
....
In short, the Fairchild Combination Stereo/Monaural Disc will outperform any
other monaural or stereo record [rest is in italics] on its own ground!
Since we do not manufacture and stock separate monaural and stereo versoins
of its releases, we can pass considerabel savings on to you.
HOW IS THIS ACCOMPLISHED?
The Fairchild Compatible Stereo Disc is not "fake" stereo, nor it is produced
by any electronic "gimmickry". It is a true stereo record, with stereo
definition and depth actually superior to ordinary .......
Question: How does a stereo record differ from a mono record, and do we
believe the record jackets that say you can play a stereo record on monaural
equipment and it will sound better than monaural? Were there stereo records
that could not be played on a mono phonograph?
Kiwanis had, I think, two copies of Volume I of this series. A Musical
Heritage Society Compatible Stereo release. Did MHS improve over the years?
This jacket is burgundy embossed to look like leather, the embossing job being
poorer than that used by Concert Hall Society, who they may have been
imitating. One piece is by Michael Praetorius. (My brother informed me that
those people who died on his birthday were not composers except Verdi).
|
md
|
|
response 145 of 194:
|
Feb 3 23:18 UTC 2000 |
Can't help you with the baroque stuff. I enjoy
having it on in the background once in a while,
but it doesn't grab my attention.
I'm married to my Toscanini recordings of the
Beethoven symphonies, but I also enjoy the period-
instrument performances by John Elliot Gardner,
whose name I might be misspelling.
I'm a sucker for schmaltzy orchestrations of Chopin.
I bet the Philadephia Orchestra exel at this, with
that luscious string sound Ormandy is said to have
imparted to them.
|
keesan
|
|
response 146 of 194:
|
Feb 4 06:17 UTC 2000 |
This record is now available again at Kiwanis for about fifty cents, want it?
|
md
|
|
response 147 of 194:
|
Feb 4 10:36 UTC 2000 |
I don't like to listen to LPs anymore, but thanks
anyway! You've motivated me to go out a buy a
schmaltzy CD or two, however.
|
mary
|
|
response 148 of 194:
|
Feb 4 10:58 UTC 2000 |
A few days ago I bought a CD of the Emerson Quartet doing
Schubert's "Death and the Maiden". I'd heard their version
on the radio and was fairly blown away by the edgy bow
work involved. This is probably not introductory quartet
music but it isn't the late Beethoven quartets either.
|
keesan
|
|
response 149 of 194:
|
Feb 6 18:40 UTC 2000 |
I just read that the six Bach trio sonatas which J. Power Biggs played on the
pedal harpsichord were in fact written not for separate instruments but for
pedal organ. The three parts were played by left hand, right hand, and feet.
(Donald Jay Grout and Claude V. Palisca, A History of Western Music)
Bach liked challenges.
|
davel
|
|
response 150 of 194:
|
Feb 7 01:58 UTC 2000 |
Um, *E.* Power Biggs, I think.
|
keesan
|
|
response 151 of 194:
|
Feb 8 03:00 UTC 2000 |
Yes.
|
keesan
|
|
response 152 of 194:
|
Feb 9 01:38 UTC 2000 |
Elgar's variations sound much better on my radio than they did on an old
record on an old record player, but I think it is mainly the performers.
|
keesan
|
|
response 153 of 194:
|
Feb 13 23:48 UTC 2000 |
I did prefer Bruno Walter for the Brahms, thanks.
Which of the following would you choose and why for Beethoven's 9th:
MMS long play Netherlands Philharmonic with Walter Goehr. He conducted a
majority of the MMS recordings, all of which I like. 50s?
Columbia Masterworks LP high fidelity: NY Philharmonic with Bruno Walter
RCA Red Seal stereo, A Basic Library of the Music America Loves Best,
Chicago Symphony Fritz Reiner Curtin Kopleff McCollum Gramm and the Chicago
Symphony Chorus.
I sang this one with our university choirs and the BSO (I think it was). I
hope the Chicago Symphony is better than we were.
The RCA jacket has pictures of other jackets of World's Favorites: Grand
Opera, Beethoven Sonatas, Showpieces (Song of India, Le Coq d'Or....),
Ballets, Concertos. Artur Rubinstein, Van Cliburn, Domingo.
Which orchestras and conductors were considered the best in the fifties,
sixties and seventies?
RCA got the 9th Complete on 1 LP, MMS used two full and two partial sides,
one movement on each side. Columbia split the third movement.
Do the newer LPS hold more than the older ones or did Goehr just take it
slower rather than trying to be complete on 1 LP?
Actually, MMS got movements 2 and 3 on the same side, complete. And shared
movement 1 with some Bach and Mozart, and 4 with Barber of Seville, and the
fourth side remained for a Vivaldi Concerto, Scarlatti, Chopin, Brahms
Academic Festival Overture, some Carmen and Flight of the Bumblebee. All by
the same orchestra.
|
md
|
|
response 154 of 194:
|
Feb 14 00:34 UTC 2000 |
Goehr I'm not familiar with. I love some of
Reiner's recordings, but I don't know how he
fared on the 9th. Walter is probably the
most listenable. I'm curious to know what
you think. The 9th, btw, is the one Beethoven
symphony that John Eliot Gardiner (note the
correct spelling) and his period instrument
orchestra don't excel at, in my opinion. The
overblown ultraglorious sound of the modern
orchestra works best.
|
keesan
|
|
response 155 of 194:
|
Feb 14 00:51 UTC 2000 |
RCA has the answer. RCA takes the guesswork out of building a BASIC CLASSICAL
MUSIC LIBRARY. THe WORLD'S FAVORITE MUSIC performed by the WORLD'S GREATEST
ARTISTS. (The world was a bit smaller back then and listened only to
classical western music.)
In order of publication: (* - I have it, x - would not want it)
The World's Favorite:
1. Grand Opera - Celeste Aida - Habanera - Lucia: Sextet - Vesti la
giubba - Anvil Chorus - Un bel di more.
(Can anyone identify the actual operas these are from?)
*2. Beethoven's Fifth, Schubert's Unfinished Symphonies
*3. Tchaikovsky's Pathetique Symphony (sixth)
4. Rhapsodies: *Roumanian No. 1 (Enesco?) - *Hungarian Nos 2 and 6
(Brahms?) - Espana (whose?) - Cornish (whose?)
5. Marches: Stars and Strips Forever (Sousa) - Colonel Bogey (?) - March
of the Toys (?) - Pomp and Circumstance (Elgar?) - more
6. Reveries: Schubert's Serenade - Air on the G String (?) - Clair de
Lune (Debussy) - Greensleeves (?) - more
7. Dances: The Sleeping Beauty Waltz (?) - Sabre Dance (?) - Russian
Sailors' Dance - Hungarian Dances 5 and 6 (Brahms? Bartok?) - Ritual Fire
Dance (Falla) - more
*8. The World's Favorite Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture, Capriccio Italien,
Marche Slave
9. Finlandia (Sibelius) - The Moldau (Smetana) - Bolero (Ravel) -
Capriccio Espagnol (Rimsky-Korsakov?)
X10. Grand Canyon Suite (Copland?) - El Salon Mexico (?)
*11. Tchaikovsky and Mendelson Violin Concertos - Heifetz
*12. Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
*13. Grieg Piano Concerto Rachmaninoff Paganini Rhapsody
*14. Beethoven Sonatas - Moonlight Pathetique Appassionata
*15. Gaite Parisienne (Offenbach) Les Sylphides (?)
*16. Strauss Waltzes
17. Overtures: William Tell, Poest and Peasant, Zampa, Light Cavalry,
Orpheus in Hades, more (who wrote all of these?)
18. Film Themes: Love Story, 2001, Laura, Exodus, West Side STory, Romeo
and Juliet, Mary Poppins (does this count as classical?!), Cabaret,
Breakfast at Tiffany's, others. (Who wrote all of these?)
19. Showpieces: Scheherezade (whose?), Song of India (?), Le Coq d'Or
(R-K), Bridal Procession (?)
20. Showpieces: Pines of Rome (Respighi), Pictures at an Exhibition
(Ravel?)
*21. Showpieces: Sorceror's Apprentice (Dukas), Night on Bald Mountain
(Moussorgsky), Danse Macabre (?), Peer Gynt SUite 1 (Grieg), Flight of the
Bumblebee (RK)
*22. Dvorak's New World Symphony
*23. Beethoven's 9th (they bill it as the best ever, why no. 24?)
*24. Beethoven Violin Concerto
*25. Concertos: Rachmaninoff 2, Liszt 1
26. Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue, Concerto in F, American in Paris
*27. Tchaikovsky Nutcracker and Swan Lake
28. Chorales: Hallelujah (Handel), Battle Hymn of the Republic (a
chorale?), A Mighty Fortress, Land of Hope and Glory, Jesu Joy of Man's
Desiring, more
*29. Chopin - various
30. Van Cliburn (the only performer rather than composer): Fur Elise
(Beethoven) Clair de lune (Debussy) Reverie (?) Liebestraum (?),
Traumerei (Schubert), Rondo alla Turca (Mozart?), Brahms' Waltz, more.
Please identify composers listed as ? and correct any wrong guesses.
Are there any pieces on this list you would subtract from your own list of
favorites? I can think of plenty to add, such as Mozart and Haydn, the
Renaissance and Baroque periods. This set would better have been titled
Favorite Music of the Romantic Period. Was this really the standard
repertoire in 1972?
|
keesan
|
|
response 156 of 194:
|
Feb 14 00:52 UTC 2000 |
154 got in ahead of 155. I have only listened to Reiner so far, not bad.
|
gelinas
|
|
response 157 of 194:
|
Feb 14 01:06 UTC 2000 |
The music for _Breakfast_at_Tiffany's_ was by Henry Macini; they probably
meant "Moon River" as the theme. I think _Orpheus_ is Jacques Offenbach.
|
md
|
|
response 158 of 194:
|
Feb 14 13:22 UTC 2000 |
This was certainly not the standard repertoire in 1972.
Here are my answers to this pop quiz:
"Celeste Aida" is from Verdi's Aida. The "Habanera"
is from Bizet's Carmen. "Lucia" is "Lucia di Lammermore."
"Vesti la giubba" is from Pagliacci. The "Anvil Chorus"
is from a Verdi opera which I forget. "Un bel di" is from
Puccini's Madama Butterfly (first syllable of "Butterfly"
rhymes with "foot," if you want to be all Italian about it.)
Rhapsodies: Roumanian No. 1 is undoubtedly Enesco's
greatest hit. The two Hungarian ones are probably by Liszt.
Espana is probably by Chabrier. The Cornish rhapsody I
don't think I know.
Marches: Colonel Bogey was used in the movie Bridge over the
River Kwai, which is why it's on this disk, but who wrote it
I don't know. Malcolm Arnold? March of the Toys might be
Victor Herbert. Pomp and Circumstance I'm sure means P&C #1
by Elgar, the one with the "graduation march" (as we think
of it in this country -- in England it's the anthem "Land of
Hope and Glory," by which I believe they mean England).
Reveries: Air on the G String is by Bach. Greensleeves is
probably the Fantasia on Greensleeves by Ralph Vaughan
Williams.
The Sleeping Beauty Waltz is from the ballet by Tchaikovsky.
Sabre Dance is from Gayaneh by Khachaturian. Russian Sailors'
Dance I really ought to know, but I've forgoten. Some
Sovcomposer, I think. Hungarian Dances 5 and 6 are probably
Brahms.
Capriccio Espagnol is probably the one by Rimsky-Korsakov.
Grand Canyon Suite is by Ferd grofe. El Salon Mexico is by
Aaron Copland.
Les Sylphides is Chopin.
Of the listed film themes, only 2001 counts as "classical"
music, because Kubrick drew all of the music for that movie
from existing "classical" pieces. The most famous one, and
the one probably on this disk, is the opening "dawn" sequence
from Also Sprach Zarathustra by Richard Strauss, which was
later adopted by Elvis Presley for the opening of his Las
Vegas act and then became an intolerable cliche. And I
didn't even like it that much to begin with. I don't know
who composed most of the other themes. West Side Story is
Leonard Bernstein, of course. I think Henry Mancini wrote
the Breakfast at Tiffany's music.
There have been a couple of Scheherezades. My favorite one
is by Ravel, but the more famous one is by Rimsky Korsakov.
Le Coq d'Or is also Rimsky. "Bridal Procession" might be
Wagner.
Pictures at an Exhibition was a piano piece by Moussorgsky
which was arranged for orchestra by several composers. The
only arrangement you ever hear is by Ravel.
Danse Macabre is by Saint-Saens.
Liebestraum is probably the one by Liszt. The Rondo alla
Turca is undoubtedly the one by Mozart, from his 9th (?)
piano sonata.
|
md
|
|
response 159 of 194:
|
Feb 14 13:25 UTC 2000 |
Grand Canyon Suite is by Ferde Grofe. Sorry.
|
keesan
|
|
response 160 of 194:
|
Feb 14 16:13 UTC 2000 |
Would you suggest that I own any of the ones I could not identify?
Anyone want to list all the good composers who did not make it onto the 30
record set? They did get Bach, Handel, Mozart (not Haydn), Beethoven,
Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Liszt, Grieg, Wagner,
Ravel, Debussy, Rimsky-K, Mussorgsky and Rachmaninoff, Smetana, Sibelius.
Bizet, Puccini, Verdi. A bit heavy on the Tchaikovsky, why?
Thanks for all the answers. I have also seen one-disc compilations of all the
best classical music (at K-Mart).
|
orinoco
|
|
response 161 of 194:
|
Feb 14 21:44 UTC 2000 |
Isn't the standard "Bridal Procession" by Mendelssohn?
|
md
|
|
response 162 of 194:
|
Feb 14 23:37 UTC 2000 |
It used to be Wagner coming into the church,
Mendelssohn going out. Now it's Pachelbel
both ways. Yech.
Note, btw, the absence of Pachelbel's "immortal"
Canon from the RCA list, which was compiled back
before the New Age had blown the dust of well-
deserved oblivion off of that stupefyingly dull
piece of music.
|
gelinas
|
|
response 163 of 194:
|
Feb 15 02:06 UTC 2000 |
I thought Sabre Dance was Rimsky-Korsakov, but I couldn't think of his name
yesterday.
|
md
|
|
response 164 of 194:
|
Feb 15 14:10 UTC 2000 |
Khatchaturian, from the ballet Gayaneh.
|