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Grex > Coop > #256: Has the time come to consider dissolving the corporation? | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 75 responses total. |
tsty
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response 14 of 75:
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Nov 21 03:10 UTC 2009 |
This response has been erased.
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tsty
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response 15 of 75:
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Nov 21 03:12 UTC 2009 |
In the event the membership is unable to support ....
wieth $6K+ in the bank non-support is moot
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richard
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response 16 of 75:
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Nov 21 04:59 UTC 2009 |
money is not the only thing you need for 'support', you need people to
run the place.
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cross
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response 17 of 75:
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Nov 22 00:14 UTC 2009 |
Richard's right on this one. Grex should dissolve; there's just not
enough people around to support it.
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unicorn
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response 18 of 75:
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Nov 22 05:22 UTC 2009 |
What kind of support is necessary? Serving on the board or staff?
The conferences seem to be quite active. At least Agora is. That
would appear to be some support (at least tacit support) for
continuing. There seem to be others who use grex who don't use the
conferences, and may be unaware there is discussion of dissolution.
Perhaps that should be mentioned in the motd.
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richard
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response 19 of 75:
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Nov 22 06:14 UTC 2009 |
re #18 again nobody is saying grex should go away. This bbs should
keep going. But cyberspace communications, this non-profit
corporation formed to support it? When nobody wants to be treasurer
and you can't get quorum at the board meetings to have actual votes,
you have a non-functioning entity. It is useless to have more board
elections. There are better and more efficient ways for grex to
operate without the need for the corporation.
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tod
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response 20 of 75:
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Nov 23 23:38 UTC 2009 |
Vulcan mind meld
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tsty
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response 21 of 75:
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Nov 24 00:44 UTC 2009 |
re 17 ... taht is incorrect and you know it. there ARE enough ppl
around to support grex ... you just ahve to 'employ' them.
re 18 ..... "nobody is saying grex should go away." - wrong! but
i know more, sorry to say.
btw, nobody 'runs' for terasurer ... from the board, the teasurer
is -selected- , actually, there is no requeriemntt that the treasureer
has to be a board memeber.
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veek
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response 22 of 75:
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Nov 24 02:24 UTC 2009 |
yeah ts, but it's the one post that requires skillz! How are we going
to find another aruba and file all the paper wrk?? Hmm.. I checked and
there is no treasurer for dummies book so we are scrwd.
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cross
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response 23 of 75:
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Nov 24 04:34 UTC 2009 |
resp:21 Really? Who? I know no such thing.
resp:19 I'm saying Grex should go away.
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tsty
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response 24 of 75:
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Nov 24 08:44 UTC 2009 |
re 22 ... see re 21 ... treasureer is chosen from among teh board members
or selected from a vollunteer apporved by board.
re 23 .... read caredully ... carefully.
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veek
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response 25 of 75:
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Nov 24 10:50 UTC 2009 |
yes, but! he has to be able to DO the job! It involves all sorts of
legal paperwork; forms to fill and submit every year (tax returns?);
running to the bank to cash cheques; which means someone in MI? Someone
who knows tax thingies.. (and I suppose there will be more stuff as
well). Would aruba be willing to coach one of us to do the stuff before
he leaves??
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veek
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response 26 of 75:
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Nov 24 16:17 UTC 2009 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)
Note that "tax exempt" also does not excuse an organization from
maintaining proper records and filing any required annual or special-
purpose tax returns.[3] Previously, annual returns were not generally
required from an exempt organization accruing less than $25,000 in
gross income yearly.[4] However, from 2008 onwards, many such
organizations must file a yearly "e-Postcard" or risk losing their
exemption [5]
Failure to file required returns such as Form 990 (Return of
Organization Exempt From Income Tax) may result in monetary fines of up
to $250,000 per year. Exempt or political organizations (excluding
churches or similar religious entities) must make their returns,
reports, notices, and exempt applications available for public
inspection.
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=208553,00.html
http://www.t-tlaw.com/lr-05.htm
***
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=169250,00.html
(e-postcard link)
***
[okay I think this is easily doable! Just check out that e-postcard
link. First we read up. Then we read up again. Then we ask Aruba
questions. Then Aruba fills us in on anything we missed, and we have a
whole bunch of treasurers :) It's not overly complicated than filling a
normal tax return.]
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veek
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response 27 of 75:
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Nov 24 16:22 UTC 2009 |
holy mackrel! I even got the cyberspace communications e-filing :)
http://www.irs.gov/app/ePostcard/
Tax Period:
2008 (01/01/2008 - 12/31/2008) Employer Identification Number (EIN):
38-2998091
Legal Name and Mailing Address:
CYBERSPACE COMMUNICATIONS
PO BOX 4432
ANN ARBOR, MI 481064432
United States Other names the organization conducts business under
(Doing Business As):
GREX
Organization has terminated:
No Gross receipts are normally $25,000 or less:
Yes
Website URL:
http://www.cyberspac e.org Principal Officer's Name and Address:
Mark Conger
PO BOX 4432
ANN ARBOR, MI 481064432
United States
[Ha! see! it says the Organization has not terminated, which means you
need a board or someone to officially terminate stuff with the IRS.
Hmm.. it's very limited info. I thought I'd get to see a lot more
interesting stuff. Guess a postcard is literally a postcard.]
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veek
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response 28 of 75:
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Nov 24 16:33 UTC 2009 |
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf
Has everything we need. Look for: "Form-990-N for small exempt
organizations"
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veek
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response 29 of 75:
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Nov 24 16:41 UTC 2009 |
you need to get the loginID/Password Aruba created for filling the e-
postcard: http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=177782,00.html
(FAQ's: it's got everything. There might be stuff to be filed at the
state level, but 1/2 an hour with Mr.Conger and I bet everyone will be
an expert. *rawr* ha! no dissolving of corporation <g>)
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jep
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response 30 of 75:
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Nov 24 18:18 UTC 2009 |
For some reason all of the items in this conference were listed as
"forgotten", so this is the first time I've seen this item.
I'm not in favor of Grex shutting down. It's an interesting place with
it's own culture and history, and I enjoy participating in the
conversations here.
I'm not a member solely because I think it's ridiculous to contribute to
a non-profit with thousands of dollars in the bank and no need for that
much money. That excludes me from the Board. I wouldn't run anyway
because I'm on the Board of Arbornet and prefer not to be part of both.
I am not knowledgeable enough to do much as a staff member.
I'm the treasurer of Arbornet. I'm willing to help out if someone wants
to take over as treasurer of Cyberspace. Most things are probably the
same here as they are over there.
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tsty
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response 31 of 75:
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Nov 24 18:31 UTC 2009 |
please link to agora - tia
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tsty
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response 32 of 75:
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Nov 24 18:37 UTC 2009 |
incorrect jep, that changed ... if elected you must become a member
for the duration (at least) to serve in tha ellected capacity.
whih reminds me to scrounge up another yr's membership money due rsn.
however, being on the board of the m-b0x mya present a conflict w/you
but not w/grex (imo).
lotsa ppl serve on boards of similar organizatoisns - and i do'n't
consider that grex adn the m-b0x to be in competition w/each other.
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jep
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response 33 of 75:
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Nov 24 18:52 UTC 2009 |
I think M-Net and Grex are in direct competition with one another.
People on M-Net regularly proclaim their hatred of Grex, and people on
Grex regularly give thanks to God and his disciple, Rane Curl, that they
are not on M-Net.
Additionally, my interests in joining the Board of Cyberspace would be
to, 1) keep it from dissolving, 2) Get it to change it's name to "Grex,
Inc." instead of "Cyberspace Communications, Inc." which I think is
pretentious and silly, and 3) participate in the decision on whom to
donate it's money to if it did dissolve.
I'd have very clear conflicts of interest in #3. I have internal
conflicts just musing about it. If Grex gets to that point, I will
undoubtedly act as Arbornet's treasurer to lobby for the money to be
given to Arbornet. I've already speculated about having the two
organizations merge.
So, emphatically no, I don't think I should be on Grex's Board.
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jgelinas
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response 34 of 75:
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Nov 24 21:58 UTC 2009 |
TS, you are incorrect: one must be a member when the voting begins.
Apparently, you weren't informed that an anonymous donor paid for a
three-month membership to qualify you for last year's election. I
suspect the same donor could be encouraged to help other candidates this
year.
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richard
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response 35 of 75:
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Nov 24 22:48 UTC 2009 |
I think if JEP is willing to join the board and act as grex's new
treasurer, as well as being arbornet's, it would be a clear way to
start facilitating an eventual merger or sale of assets to arbornet.
I think the grex haters on mnet would be outnumbered by those who the
benefits of arbornet becoming the parent company of both of these
classic old bbs's.
perhaps a slate of 'abolitionist candidates' can be organized, those
running on a platform of taking cyberspace communications inc. out of
existence within one year's time or before any further elections need
to take place. It can be a goal for the new board to work for and a
reason for some of the veteran past board members to consider coming
back for one last time.
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cyklone
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response 36 of 75:
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Nov 25 00:36 UTC 2009 |
Here's an out of the box thought on the treasurer situation:
Does anyone know a friendly accountant willing to help out a non-profit?
Pay him/her some nominal sum, toss in a membership and vote them up to
treasurer. Viola, problem solved.
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veek
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response 37 of 75:
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Nov 25 02:44 UTC 2009 |
It would be better if we made sure ALL board members knew this stuff!
It's only 1/2 hrs work and if we make detailed notes and upload it,
future generations of Grexers can then easily refer to the web-site and
we'd never again have to worry about treasurer resigning. Most of the
work has been done by Aruba (registering the company, creating a
records template etc) so all we got to do is follow in his illustrious
footsteps. Cheques can be mailed to the bank and Aruba can fill us in,
via email, on any other works that come up.
We'll worry about mergers and acquisitions at a later date.
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jep
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response 38 of 75:
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Nov 25 03:52 UTC 2009 |
I pretty much agree with veek. An accountant is not needed. What Grex
needs for treasurer is someone who will cash checks, write a report
occasionally, and fill out a couple of forms per year. That's all I do
for M-Net and it's sufficient.
Richard: I don't want Grex to fold or to merge with M-Net. I want it to
survive on its own.
I also don't want a 2nd treasurer's position or a 2nd Board position. I
regard doing either of those things as a conflict of interest.
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