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Grex > Agora35 > #164: Thoughts about candy and retailing | |
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| 25 new of 81 responses total. |
bru
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response 12 of 81:
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Nov 22 00:04 UTC 2000 |
I wish my Pepsi habit had been all marketing! It took four days in the
hospital with NO fluids to break my addiction. Gareth is activly trying to
break his addiction now, and Anderyn has basically given up trying to break
the habit.
Callard and Bowsers were wonderful many years aga, an are still better than
many US candies today.
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ea
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response 13 of 81:
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Nov 22 00:15 UTC 2000 |
Some candy is different in the UK than in the US even though it's
marketed under the same brand name. For example: Cadbury Chocolate in
the UK is much better than the same product sold in the US. (I think
part of the reason is that Cadbury is a UK company, and their US
sales/production are licensed to Nestle USA rather than being produced
directly by Cadbury)
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mcnally
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response 14 of 81:
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Nov 22 00:55 UTC 2000 |
Larry's #0 touches on one of my pet peeves -- another example of the
customer contempt mentioned in #0 can be found (sometimes strikingly)
in grocery-store bakery sections.
At some time in the past fifteen or so years it became fashionable for
upscale grocery stores to have specialty sections like a deli counter,
etc, where they'd offer selections that had previously mostly been
the purview of smaller independent specialty stores. One of the more
common specialty sections to roll into stores at this time was a bakery
section where they'd offer fresh-baked breads, cookies, cakes, etc.
This movement became so popular that most larger grocery stores now seem
to feature such a section. Even smaller stores do, although the goods
often aren't baked on the premises. When this trend first started,
I was quite happy about it -- some of the store bakeries were pretty
good and virtually all were good enough that I much preferred a loaf of
their store-baked bread to a loaf of "Wonder Hearth Krust" or whatever
was the only option available before if you weren't fortunate enough
to live in a neighborhood with a good independent bakery.
However, as the trend spread from the high-end specialty stores and
was adopted by most full-size chain groceries, the quality of the baked
goods declined dramatically, even in those stores which had previously
had pretty decent bakery sections. These days I'm amazed at the low
quality of the products the store bakeries turn out. They clearly know
how to make visually appealing baked goods but have just as clearly
found a way to make them virtually inedible -- certainly unenjoyable..
Largely this comes from using the cheapest available ingredients --
fake butter, fake vanilla, the lowest possible quality chocolate
(when they use chocolate at all), etc. Often the stuff even smells
good: if you happen to walk past the bakery section just as they're
taking out loaves of bread or a tray of hot cinnamon rolls it's pretty
hard to remember the sawdust-like "chocolate" chip cookies you bought
the last time you were in that store -- cookies that not only didn't
taste like chocolate but didn't actually taste like much of anything.
What's the point of a tasteless cookie?
What's most galling to me is that not only do the baked goods being
sold in these sections often cost as much or more as (and taste worse
than) the pre-packaged goods available in the same store, they also
cost just as much as the goods available at the few remaining decent
independant local bakeries but outsell those bakeries by many times --
in fact they've done a remakable job of killing most of the neighborhood
bakeries that still survived. It drives me crazy that people are so
oblivious to taste that they're willing to buy the baked goods produced
by a Kroger bakery section, but clearly people *are* buying these goods --
the grocery business is very competitive and I doubt that the stores
would devote so much floor space to bakery departments if they weren't
either turning a profit or bring customers into the store..
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keesan
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response 15 of 81:
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Nov 22 02:20 UTC 2000 |
For anyone interested in fresh-baked bread, we are willing to share, at our
low cost, the contents of 50 pound bags of organic wheat and rye flour that
we just bought, along with instructions on how to convert them to bread. If
you don't like someone else's cooking, cook your own. Bread making also gives
you free exercise and the heat generated by the oven is useful in cold
weather. 17 cents/pound for rye flour, makes more than a pound of bread,
maybe two pounds.
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senna
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response 16 of 81:
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Nov 22 02:57 UTC 2000 |
I have not given myself over to my Mountain Dew addiction (disgusting stuff,
really), but I have found that it is highly impractical to attempt to break
it from within my current situation. It is highly integrated into my work
schedule. When that changes, I might be able to kick the caffeine as well.
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gull
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response 17 of 81:
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Nov 22 03:54 UTC 2000 |
Re #0: My impression is that the quality of McDonald's food has gone down
over the last ten years, but it could be my tastes have just improved.
Re #14: I found that the fresh baked bread at Cub Foods (where I shopped in
St. Paul) was somewhat better than the regular "factory bread", but
unfortunately it grew mold considerably sooner. I just couldn't finish off
a loaf before it went moldy, so I went back to the factory-baked stuff.
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keesan
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response 18 of 81:
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Nov 22 04:08 UTC 2000 |
Refrigeration slows down the mold greatly. THe commercial stuff has
preservatives in it. Bread can also be frozen but it gets a bit dried out.
As toast you would not notice the difference.
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senna
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response 19 of 81:
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Nov 22 07:22 UTC 2000 |
I was somewhat annoyed when Mcdonald's slashed the Arch Deluxe, which I felt
was a well-made burger (as far as fast food goes) and quite unique in favor
of the Big Extra, a substandard takeoff of the Whopper. Chicken Mcnuggets
and the sauce I consume them with has been the same for at least 15 years.
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bdh3
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response 20 of 81:
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Nov 22 08:34 UTC 2000 |
Never heard the saying 'variety is the spice of life' huh.
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bru
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response 21 of 81:
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Nov 22 12:54 UTC 2000 |
I agree on the Inhouse Bakery. My mother used to work in a bakery, and there
was nothing like the taste of those fresh made cinnamon rolls or the filled
sticks that came out of that store. The baker was a master at his craft.
I can find nothing even comperable to it today. Dunkin Donuts, Kroger Donuts,
and every other donut I have ever tried is very dry in comparison, and I
believe it is because they no longer use natural ingredients and they put so
much preservatives in them.
Lard, butter, whole milk, cream, and sugar may not be as cheap or as healthy
as shortening, margarine, pastuerized milk, half and half, and corn sweetener,
but I think they taste a whole lot better. Same with Vanilla and other
artificial flavorings. Give me the real stuff any day.
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jazz
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response 22 of 81:
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Nov 22 15:44 UTC 2000 |
I'm not so sure about Hudson's. Perhaps it was my age at the time,
but I always held the store in a sort of awe in the 1980s, and wondered if
the employees were specially trained like butlers or other professional
servants in how to be polite and respectful - even if their customers weren't
- but these days I see a more human, if more realistic, side to their staff.
I'm still floored by the professionalism of the staff at La Paresienne.
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keesan
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response 23 of 81:
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Nov 22 16:04 UTC 2000 |
Definitions: Whole milk - milk without any cream removed. Pasteurized milk
- milk (with or without cream removed) which has been heated briefly to kill
any harmful bacteria. Half and half - cream with less fat than heavy cream.
Whole milk may or may not be pasteurized, same for half and half, but you
would probably have to get your own cow in order to find unpasteurized milk.
Butter- cream with the water removed, often with salt added to preserve it.
Lard - pig fat. Shortening - any fat used in cooking, including lard and
butter and margarine. Margarine and Crisco are produced from liquid oil by
hydrogenation (adding hydrogen to break the double bonds, which makes the oil
into a solid because the molecules are heavier). Sugar is an excellent
preservative, which is why very sweet baked goods don't mold. It draws the
water out of the cells of whatever tries to eat it (try eating a donut without
also drinking something). Same for salt.
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gull
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response 24 of 81:
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Nov 22 20:49 UTC 2000 |
Re #18: Never tried refrigerating it. I was afraid it'd either get soggy or
pick up refrigerator odors.
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keesan
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response 25 of 81:
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Nov 23 04:01 UTC 2000 |
You can keep it in a plastic bag to keep out odors. It would be more likely
to dry out than get soggy in a self-defrosting refrigerator.
I made sourdough type rye-wheat bread tonight. One hour of rising the sponge
(semiliquid dough), add more flour, rise it another hour in a large pot with
a cover on it (to keep it humid and keep out the oxygen as the bacteria like
salty, humid, and low oxygen) and one hour rising in pans, then baked. This
gives it more flavor, from the lactic acid bacteria. Time to go eat it.
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gull
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response 26 of 81:
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Nov 23 07:23 UTC 2000 |
My refrigerator wasn't self-defrosting, but I'm not sure what that'd have to
do with it, to be honest.
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oddie
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response 27 of 81:
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Nov 23 10:13 UTC 2000 |
re#23, is it simply the weight of the hydrogenated fats, or their geometry?
Our chem teacher told us something about dispersion forces being greater
in "straight" carbon chains than in the bent ones of unsaturated chains,
but I haven't my chemistry book on hand so I'm quite possibly wrong...
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fitz
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response 28 of 81:
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Nov 23 14:53 UTC 2000 |
Brach's and Meijer anecdote: One winter, Meijer put Brach's Mainline
chocolates on promotion. The shipments to the Okemos store were piled high
on M-carts that eventually found their way underneath the backroom heaters
at the dock doors.
Hundreds of units were eventually discovered to be single,melded massein bags
that used to contain many pieces instead of one massive candy bar.
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keesan
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response 29 of 81:
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Nov 23 22:04 UTC 2000 |
Self-defrosting refrigerators are essentially dehumidifiers. They keep
dumping all the moisture that builds up on the coils, so dry out the food.
I don't know about the disperson forces in hydrogenated fats, ask Rane. I
only know that they are heavier because the hydrogens were added, but come
to think of it, hydrogen is pretty small and light.
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gull
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response 30 of 81:
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Nov 24 02:34 UTC 2000 |
Non-self-defrosting ones are the same, except they periodically melt off the
ice that collects on the coils, instead of letting it build up, right?
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oddie
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response 31 of 81:
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Nov 24 06:17 UTC 2000 |
Rane? ;-)
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janc
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response 32 of 81:
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Nov 24 17:43 UTC 2000 |
These days I mostly shop at the coop, which is a rather tiny downtown grocery
store. Years ago I used to shop at White's Market (On William St near campus)
which is even tinier. I'm generally impressed at the way these tiny groceries
seem to have just about everything you need.
What's really weird though is that when I go to the mega-gigantic super-duper
Kroger on Maple Road to get a few items late at night, I'm always disappointed
in the selection. I think they carry fewer different brands of chips than
the Co-op does (of course, they have a almost a whole aisle containing just
Lays chips). Given that they are about 10 times bigger than the Coop, you'd
think they'd have ten times more different brands, varieties, flavors and
sizes. You'd think they'd find space to offer a respectable selection of
organic foods, which after all are popular enough in town to keep a couple
stores mainly devoted to them in business. But in fact, they seem to carry
very little besides the biggest name brands. You'd think that things like
canned fava beans, which are only occasionally at the coop, would be
consistantly carried, but them, but the have only the most ordinary bean
varieties. Meijer's grocery section, which can't be half the size of Kroger's
seem to have more selection.
The sheer bigness of the place inclines one to expect that it would have a
lot to offer, but it really seems to fall short. Kind of lame, really.
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senna
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response 33 of 81:
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Nov 24 21:36 UTC 2000 |
Actually, our grocery section is only slightly, if at all, smaller than the
Maple Road Kroger, and dwarfs nearly everything else (bloody frustrating when
you have fifteen minutes to get to the breakroom and back). I've noticed that
selection at Meijer is substantially better than Kroger, particularly in
categories like chips where we carry several smaller brands that are absent
from the Kroger aisles.
The reason Kroger stocks mostly Lays is fairly simple--it sells. The key is
keeping the large sellers in stock.
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keesan
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response 34 of 81:
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Nov 25 04:55 UTC 2000 |
Big Market on Huron St. has canned fava beans and other Mediterranean imports.
So does Alladin's Market on Packard southeast of town.
Self-defrosting refrigerators are the the ones where the ice periodically
melts off because they are set to do this at timed intervals. The non
self-defrosting ones build up ice in the freezer and you have to turn them
off once in a while and let it melt. I think they stay more humid since the
ice it actually in the refrigerator most of the time.
Fresh fava beans are sometimes found at the Zingerman's owned fruit and
vegetable market at Kerrytown, in season (not now). YOu can also get dried
fava beans at the first two stores, and soak them overnight and boil your own,
cheaper than the canned ones and a lot less energy wasted on making the cans
and recycling them. And it heats your house when you cook.
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jerryr
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response 35 of 81:
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Nov 25 14:19 UTC 2000 |
distributors pay supermarkets for shelf space. per linear foot. those items
found on the end caps don't get placed there because the store decided to put
those items on sale, they were paid to put them there. the power of co-op
advertising and direct payments for placement are the primary factors in what
is on sale in a supermarket. if a product bombs, it will be replaced by
another product, but only if payment is received in one form or another. the
competition for shelf space is enormous and expensive.
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other
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response 36 of 81:
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Nov 25 21:19 UTC 2000 |
That is not exclusively the case. The truth is a mix of paid-for
placement, and store marketing choices. Products offered as loss-leaders
(such as a basic staple like milk) are not usually promoted for fee, but
because basic marketing requires it.
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