response 116 of 176:

Aug 15 18:03 UTC 2001

As I understand it, the window for modifying or escaping the Corecomm
/ Covad contracts expired without Grex taking any action, and as a 
result Grex is contractually bound to pay for the Corecomm / Covad 
service into June? 2002.    I'd guess the chances at 50-50 that Covad's
DSL users will have lost service before then. 

Can Grex get out of the contracts based solely on a fear
that the other party is likely to default?   If we are stuck with 
ten more months of this contract, then we are thinking either of 
a backup insurance connection, or we are thinking of riding out 
the DSL shutdown if it happens.

A no-cost proposal would be to talk to CoreComm.  Grex can't be the 
only DSL customer biting its nails.

response 118 of 176:

Aug 15 19:23 UTC 2001

Let me try to summarize my paranoia for the people who don't work with 
networks.  This is probably repetitive.
 
The staff has gone to great trouble to assemble a spare parts pile
for the Sun machine.  But the network connection is just as 
critical to the Grex community as the Sun machine: 
take away the network connection, and the e-mail stops, and the 
vast majority of users are cut off.   We currently have no backup
for the Internet connection, and in the current business situation
I think the connection is in serious danger.
 
Grex's network service relies on Covad to supply the DSL connection
to the Pumpkin.  There were two other companies similar to Covad:
non-Baby Bell companies trying to sell DSL service.  These companies,
Northpoint and Rhythms, cut off their customers or 
are in the process of cutting off their customers when they failed
as businesses.  Covad itself is filing for bankruptcy reorganization.
In the current economic climate, there is no reason to expect 
Covad customers to be fare any better than Northpoint or Rhythms 
customers.

As I see it, Grex has three options:
   1) Thinking about protecting itself by getting a backup insurance 
      connection, or by getting out of a relationship with Covad, 
      before Covad fails.   This way, a Covad DSL shutdown would be 
      a non-event to Grex.  This is expensive, no doubt.
   2) Thinking about riding out a Covad DSL shutdown.  This involves 
      planning NOW: does Grex move to a location with connectivity?
      Does Grex multiplex analog phone lines?  Or....?
   3) Don't think; this networking stuff is too complicated, and maybe
      Covad will pull through. 

A comparison would be Chinet.  According to a Chicago transit web site
hosted by Chinet, Chinet was down for three weeks after Northpoint 
cut them off, before they could get a replacement T1 line installed.

response 120 of 176:

Aug 16 12:33 UTC 2001

Well, if Covad suddenly disappears we could probably re-establish a dial-up
PPP connection pretty quickly.  This would give us *some* kind of net
presence, though not anything anyone will really want to use.  It's a better
stop gap than completely disappearing off the net.

It'd be nice to have a meaningful fallback plan.  We discussed this at the
last staff meeting without coming up with anything even vague resembling a
viable plan.  I don't think we can afford to bring up a backup connection.
The best we can do is decide what connection type we should choose if Covad
goes away.  Seems like the choices are:
   - T1 - probably still out of our price range
   - Cable - has anyone checked if symmetric commercial service is available?
   - Ameritech DSL
   - ISDN - not very attractive from a cost/performance point of view
   - colocation

response 122 of 176:

Aug 16 20:41 UTC 2001

In the Covad disaster scenario, would it make sense to arrange for 
two dialup PPP connections, and use one of them to handle the e-mail 
load?  This might be easier than getting the stuff needed to multiplex
two phone calls into one connection.  Just ruminating.

response 124 of 176:

Aug 17 03:33 UTC 2001

Grex is pretty far beyond being able to run on a dial-up connection.

You don't need a provider who understands public access systems.  That's
irrelevant.  You need a provider who is willing to forward packets to
arbitrary incoming ports ("let you run your own server"), as would probably 
all the options above except apparrently your local cable company.  Likewise, 
symetric bandwidth is a red herring.  As long as the slower direction is fast 
enough, it's not a problem that the other direction is faster.

Grex probably does need a provider willing to do some handholding, although
whether the Grex staff will take advantage of the availability of said
handholding is another issue.  The current Grex staff approach to network
problems seems to be to label it as my problem, ignore any solutions I
suggest (such as making a phone call to the ISP) as too complicated, and wait
several weeks until I either make the necessary phone call (not very effective
when the ISP wants to know what the stauts lights on the router are doing),
or until the problem goes away on its own.  Since that's not a service I'm
able or willing to provide from this distance, Grex needs to find somebody
else to deal with network issues.  However, since that's a service Grex is
paying its current ISP for, and nobody is willing to take advantage of it,
I suppose another ISP willing to provide support on another sort of connection
may not be any more useful.

response 126 of 176:

Aug 17 18:35 UTC 2001

I ran across mention of a $3500 T1 installation charge for another ISP.

response 128 of 176:

Aug 18 18:33 UTC 2001

Re #125: I pay less than that for my house.

response 130 of 176:

Aug 18 19:13 UTC 2001

Among numerous usenet postings regarding Covad which I found
at:

http://groups.google.com/googlegroups/deja_announcement.html

one posting was singularly prominent, excerpts of which are 
the following:


>  From: Bill Somerville (bsomerville@toad.net)
>  Subject: ToadNet re: Covad
>  Newsgroups: comp.dcom.xdsl
>
>....
>
>  Date: 2001-08-10 21:25:20 PST
>
>Today I received the following letter today from David
>Troy, CEO of ToadNet regarding the Covad situation.  I
>understand that other ISPs are sending similar letters to
>their customers.
>
>>"August 7, 2001
>>
>>Dear Valued Customer:
>>
>>....
>>
>>Covad Communications, the carrier that you use to receive 
>>DSL Internet access through ToadNet, today announced an
>>agreement with its bondholders that will eliminate about
>>$1.4 billion in debt, lifting a significant burden from
>>the company's shoulders and allowing it to focus on
>>achieving profitability sooner.
>>
>>....
>>
>>Covad is and has been the leading independent DSL provider 
>>in the U.S., with about 335,000 active residential and
>>business DSL subscribers.  Today its stock has moved
>>upward on the news.
>>"The main issue was getting out of debt," Charles Hoffman,
>>Covad's chief executive, said in an interview.  "In one
>>fell swoop, this restructuring will take us out of debt."
>>
>>....
>>
>>We [ToadNet] have also been working quietly for the last 
>>several months with other carriers including Verizon and 
>>NAS.  If for any reason Covad becomes unable to deliver 
>>service to you, we will immediately notify you with 
>>information about migrating to one of these carriers.
>>...."
>
> (c)2001 Google

  Given that (as stated in the above letter):

    Covad is and has been the leading independent DSL
    provider in the U.S., with about 335,000 active
    residential and business DSL subscribers.

it is not surprising that there are 391 usenet postings
in Google posted during the last seven days regarding 
Covad:

    Searched Groups for covad from 11 Aug 2001 to today
    Results 1 - 100 of about 391. Search took 1.79 seconds.

  Has Grex received any notices or e-mail from CoreComm
regarding Covad?

response 132 of 176:

Aug 19 02:36 UTC 2001

Yup; network connections are expensive.

response 134 of 176:

Aug 19 18:19 UTC 2001

Indeed, that's almost exactly our outbound access policy (except
to the extent that unrestricted outbound access to port 80 might
"cause problems for others elsewhere on the Internet.").

response 136 of 176:

Aug 20 13:48 UTC 2001

(Noted.)

response 138 of 176:

Aug 21 05:49 UTC 2001

It should be noted that Merit's prices for years have been well above what
any of their competitors were charging, for what has generally been far slower
connectivity.  Price quotes (and bizarre policies) from Merit are probably
more confusing than helpful to this discussion.

Having a bunch of experience working for and dealing with ISPs, I don't find
Marcus's fantasies about things that would cause the ISP to go balistic and
cut Grex off at all realistic.

response 140 of 176:

Aug 21 13:20 UTC 2001

I hear ComCast is now telling residential customers that web servers are
against their AUP, and that port 80 will stay blocked.  I kind of doubt this
is the kind of ISP that would want business from someone like Grex.